Maybe the Villian Was Originally Khan?

[137th Gebirg]

Jackson_Roykirk wrote:

---

I would argue that TWoK is barely about the Genetically Engineered Superman we saw in Space Seed. If it wasn't for the fact that Montalban reprised his original Space Seed role (at least in character name) and a couple of references back to some details of Space Seed, it would have been very difficult to determine that the plot of TWoK was any kind of Space Seed sequel at all.

TWoK had almost nothing at all do do with the "Genetically Engineered Supermen who would rule the world" plot. It was simply about what happens after one of those Supermen goes mad with revenge.

I loved TWoK for what it was -- it was a great film. However, I would love to see a REAL Space Seed sequel featuring one or more of the Botany Bay's genetically engineered super-humans in the 23rd century Federation (I mean a cool and calculating one with all his wits about them -- not one who's gone mad). I'm not saying this film will be that -- although it might. And if it were, it would NOT be a TWoK rehash; it would be a true sequel to Space Seed.

They made such an attempt in Enterprise with the "Augments". It was kind of "eh", IMO...

[Joby]

Jackson_Roykirk wrote:

---

[I would argue that TWoK is barely about the Genetically Engineered Superman we saw in Space Seed. If it wasn't for the fact that Montalban reprised his original Space Seed role (at least in character name) and a couple of references back to some details of Space Seed, it would have been very difficult to determine that the plot of TWoK was any kind of Space Seed sequel at all.

TWoK had almost nothing at all do do with the "Genetically Engineered Supermen who would rule the world" plot. It was simply about what happens after one of those Supermen goes mad with revenge.

I loved TWoK for what it was -- it was a great film. However, I would love to see a REAL Space Seed sequel featuring one or more of the Botany Bay's genetically engineered super-humans in the 23rd century Federation (I mean a cool and calculating one with all his wits about them -- not one who's gone mad). I'm not saying this film will be that -- although it might. And if it were, it would NOT be a TWoK rehash; it would be a true sequel to Space Seed.

I agree with this. There was really nothing about the genetically engineered superman angle other then Khan mentioning he had a superior intellect. Khan only showed his super strength once IMO. It was when he lifted Chekov with one arm on Ceti Alpha V. I don't consider Khan throwing a few debris around the Reliant at the end of the movie as a show of super strength b/c we have no way of assessing how much that weighs, but we do know how much a human around Chekov's size would weigh.

If it wasn't for Khan lifting Chekov (and then mysteriously pulling him down) while he interrogates him and Captain Terrell on Ceti Alpha V, I would never guess they were people that had any type of superior strength and intellect. Hell Khan's followers in TWOK all seemed like doped up hippies anyway, hardly a MENSA crowd. When I was a kid this plot point was completely missed by me.

By the way, this is my first post back to the TREKBBS in over 3 years!! It's good to be back, the new movie brought me back!! This place sure has changed since back in 2000.

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Joby wrote:

---

...If it wasn't for Khan lifting Chekov (and then mysteriously pulling him down) while he interrogates him and Captain Terrell on Ceti Alpha V, I would never guess they were people that had any type of superior strength and intellect. Hell Khan's followers in TWOK all seemed like doped up hippies anyway, hardly a MENSA crowd. When I was a kid this plot point was completely missed by me...

It's more than that. They could have even overtly told us they had superior intellect a strength in TWoK, but it still did not utilize/exploit the potential storylines that were alluded to in Space Seed.

Joby wrote:

---

By the way, this is my first post back to the TREKBBS in over 3 years!! It's good to be back, the new movie brought me back!! This place sure has changed since back in 2000.

Welcome back!
You can check your sombrero at the door, a watch the blue nacelles light up the darkness.

[Franklin]

Joby wrote:

---

I agree with this. There was really nothing about the genetically engineered superman angle other then Khan mentioning he had a superior intellect. Khan only showed his super strength once IMO. It was when he lifted Chekov with one arm on Ceti Alpha V. I don't consider Khan throwing a few debris around the Reliant at the end of the movie as a show of super strength b/c we have no way of assessing how much that weighs, but we do know how much a human around Chekov's size would weigh.

If it wasn't for Khan lifting Chekov (and then mysteriously pulling him down) while he interrogates him and Captain Terrell on Ceti Alpha V, I would never guess they were people that had any type of superior strength and intellect. Hell Khan's followers in TWOK all seemed like doped up hippies anyway, hardly a MENSA crowd. When I was a kid this plot point was completely missed by me.

By the way, this is my first post back to the TREKBBS in over 3 years!! It's good to be back, the new movie brought me back!! This place sure has changed since back in 2000.

Well, their superior intellect would be implied by the ease with which they were able to figure out how to use the systems on the Reliant and "fly" it.
Of coures, contrast that with the "book learning" version of really manning a starship, where they had no idea about prefix codes, and later in the movie, Khan's battle tactics were two-dimensional.

[publiusr]

Harrison could always awaken Khan...

[Sigokat]

Didn't Khan do some sort of meditation chant prior to prying open the doors to his quarters in Space Seed?

To me, if I'm remembering correctly, always kind of showed the superior strength of the "supermen"

[137th Gebirg]

Meditation techniques, yes, but I don't think there was a chant attached to it. They did have that weird electric sitar music going in the background, though. I thought his crushing the phaser like it was play-dough was pretty indicative of his strength as well. As much as I love Wrath of Khan, that was the one major thing that I always thought they messed up on - a fight between Kirk and Khan. Or, at the very least, some kind of better interaction than trading jibes across the comm-link.

[Sigokat]

Oh yeah, the phaser, I had forgotten about that as well! And yeah, its almost as if the writers of TWOK forgot that Khan was supposed to be both physically and mentally superior to regular humans.

Oh and on a side note, I was in the mess hall here in Afghanistan today for lunch and a terp walked by and his name tape said Khan. it took all I had not to jump up in front of him and yell "KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!" Of course he would of had no idea what I was talking about and I probably would have gotten a referral to mental health as well...so i didn't do it. I don't know, i thought it was funny when I thought of it. LOL

[M'Sharak]

Sigokat wrote:

---

Oh and on a side note, I was in the mess hall here in Afghanistan today for lunch and a terp walked by and his name tape said Khan. it took all I had not to jump up in front of him and yell "KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!" Of course he would of had no idea what I was talking about and I probably would have gotten a referral to mental health as well...so i didn't do it. I don't know, i thought it was funny when I thought of it. LOL

Heh heh - context matters.

[CommanderRaytas]

publiusr wrote:

---

Harrison could always awaken Khan...

Please don't curse it into existence, thanks.