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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 10 2013, 09:57 AM   #16
Ln X
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

RandyS wrote: View Post
Brilliance is in the eye of the beholder. For me, she came off as the whiniest freedom fighter ever.
Nah, that was merely Nana Visitor's highish voice, at first I cringed a little when her voice became indignant but now I find it quite endearing (though as the series progressed a think a voice gradually dropped an octave, I'm not sure...). Kira is a character which just keeps on giving, plus she was the prettiest of all the female characters on that show, which is a plus!
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Old February 10 2013, 04:08 PM   #17
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

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I'm confused how DS9 was "cruelly misjudged" when it regularly ranked in the syndication top-5 ratings-wise during its run?
I agree that the use of the word "cruelly" is pushing it, and that there is a certain element of revisionist history when some fans claim that DS9 pushed the boundaries of serialised television, but DS9 was somewhat misjudged at the time. I remember that BBC2 had a Star Trek night back in 2001 and it had a documentary about the history of Trek containing interviews with cast members and c-list celebrity fans, and it just glossed over DS9. It mentioned that the main character was a black guy, and then some comedian said show was like "a bus station in space", then they moved on to discussing Voyager. They spent more time discussing Kate Mulgrew's hair than they spent discussing DS9. And that wasn't a one-off event, it was typical during that time. DS9 has always been regarded well by the more hardcore trekkies, but non-viewers and casual trekkies had this notion in their heads that DS9 was a boring show because it never went anywhere. Admittedly, some of that is the show's fault because the first season was like watching a bus station in space, but the show did change tack in the second and third seasons and that change didn't seem to be acknowledged by the general public

Now that the show is available on DVD and online streaming, and the notion that genre shows should be serialised/semi-serialised is the norm, DS9 is being revisited by those casual and non fans that once wrote it off, and they're realising that there's more to it than just a bus station in space. So, like the hipsters that we are, those of us that have been Niners from the beginning are enjoying the vindication. Sure, we're being a little smug about it, and there's a tendency to exaggerate how bad we had it like a group of Yorkshiremen, but that's human nature for you.
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Old February 10 2013, 05:02 PM   #18
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

I love nana visitor/kira in my opinion she is by far the best female character on star trek.
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Old February 10 2013, 05:10 PM   #19
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

garaks the best wrote: View Post
I love nana visitor/kira in my opinion she is by far the best female character on star trek.
Aye men to that brother!
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Old February 10 2013, 05:56 PM   #20
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

garaks the best wrote: View Post
I love nana visitor/kira in my opinion she is by far the best female character on star trek.
Couldn't agree more! Nana Visitor is the best actress to grace the main cast of a Trek show. And Kira has always been one of my favorite characters of all the series. I'm puzzled that some viewers might be put off by her.
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Old February 10 2013, 06:33 PM   #21
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Sure, we're being a little smug about it, and there's a tendency to exaggerate how bad we had it like a group of Yorkshiremen, but that's human nature for you.
In order to even watch an episode of DS9, I was forced to run a gauntlet of simple-minded TNG fans pummeling me with rotten vegetables, all the while being mocked in the mainstream media as a serial-story-arc-loving deviant.

Those were the days
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Old February 10 2013, 07:02 PM   #22
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

flemm wrote: View Post
In order to even watch an episode of DS9, I was forced to run a gauntlet of simple-minded TNG fans pummeling me with rotten vegetables, all the while being mocked in the mainstream media as a serial-story-arc-loving deviant.

Those were the days
You had it easy. To watch DS9 I used to have to run past TNG fans that threw gravel in my face while wearing a straitjacket, and I was forced to watch it outside in the snow on a tiny black and white TV while text flashed on the screen telling me I was going to hell for liking Garak.
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Old February 10 2013, 08:58 PM   #23
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

M wrote: View Post
garaks the best wrote: View Post
I love nana visitor/kira in my opinion she is by far the best female character on star trek.
Couldn't agree more! Nana Visitor is the best actress to grace the main cast of a Trek show. And Kira has always been one of my favorite characters of all the series. I'm puzzled that some viewers might be put off by her.
Everyone has different levels of enjoyment from performances of actors as fictional characters.

Visitor always came up short for me partially because of the nasally, whiny voice. But also because she simply gets blown out of the water by Michelle Forbes performance in Ensign Ro. Forbes pulled me into the Bajoran plight through a haunted recollection of the death of her father. Whenever Visitor told of the occupation, it always came across as someone complaining about a long-line at the local Walmart.

Your mileage may vary...
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Old February 10 2013, 09:09 PM   #24
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

One of the many benefits of watching DS9 through in one go is one can really appreciate how Visitor/Kira grows as an actress and character. Probably one of the best developed arcs in Trek.
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Old February 10 2013, 11:17 PM   #25
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

M wrote: View Post
garaks the best wrote: View Post
I love nana visitor/kira in my opinion she is by far the best female character on star trek.
Couldn't agree more! Nana Visitor is the best actress to grace the main cast of a Trek show. And Kira has always been one of my favorite characters of all the series. I'm puzzled that some viewers might be put off by her.
I think Kira was a fabulous character. I disagree that she was whiny. What she was was was bitchy, but I don't intend that to be at all derogatory. I loved how abrasive and prickly she was. Those were among the qualities that made her such a memorable and realistic character. And I agree with those who say she's the best regular female character in all of Trek.

BillJ wrote:
Visitor always came up short for me partially because of the nasally, whiny voice. But also because she simply gets blown out of the water by Michelle Forbes performance in Ensign Ro. Forbes pulled me into the Bajoran plight through a haunted recollection of the death of her father.
I liked Ensign Ro, too, but jeez, what's the point in comparing a performance that lasted just a few episodes to one that lasted seven years? I think you're idealizing Forbes just a bit, BillJ. She was great...for those few episodes. She might have been great on DS9, too, but we'll never know, will we?

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Old February 11 2013, 04:56 AM   #26
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

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And I agree with those who say she's the best regular female character in all of Trek.
Yeah, I think so. And that's not really a knock on anyone else. I've seen pretty much everything pop sci-fi on tv has to offer, and what Visitor was able to do as Kira is pretty remarkable, really, as far as creating a vivid, fully-realized character is concerned.

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
You had it easy. To watch DS9 I used to have to run past TNG fans that threw gravel in my face while wearing a straitjacket, and I was forced to watch it outside in the snow on a tiny black and white TV while text flashed on the screen telling me I was going to hell for liking Garak.
A straitjacket? Ha! You were lucky. I had to strip naked for the merciless flagellation I would endure prior to going outside to lie down in the snow for hours on my front lawn in the hope that I might hear a few small snippets of dialogue being rebroadcast on my neighbor's transistor radio.

Last edited by flemm; February 11 2013 at 05:07 AM.
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Old February 11 2013, 10:06 AM   #27
Ln X
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Visitor always came up short for me partially because of the nasally, whiny voice. But also because she simply gets blown out of the water by Michelle Forbes performance in Ensign Ro. Forbes pulled me into the Bajoran plight through a haunted recollection of the death of her father. Whenever Visitor told of the occupation, it always came across as someone complaining about a long-line at the local Walmart.

Your mileage may vary...
I always thought Ro seemed more human than Bajoran, she did not appear to be pious plus as a member of her species she was a bit of an oddity leaving Bajor and then joining Starfleet. Ro was a good character, but if you wanted a main character to represent Bajor, then Ro just doesn't cut it. Though it doesn't help that Ro was developed BEFORE the writers came up with the Prophets, the resistance groups and Bajoran faith.

Whereas with Kira she always came off Bajoran (even if in the first season or so she (Nana Visitor) didn't quite get into her role), but I thought Duet straightened out any problems. Can you imagine Ro taking Kira's place in Duet? Ro might not have even heard of the Gallitep labour camp for that matter!
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Old February 11 2013, 12:25 PM   #28
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

Since the role was originally created with Forbes in mind, I can imagine they would've adjusted accordingly.
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Old February 11 2013, 01:15 PM   #29
flemm
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Since the role was originally created with Forbes in mind, I can imagine they would've adjusted accordingly.
Well, Forbes was going to play Ro (it would have worked liked Chief O'Brien).

It's hard to say how that would have played out, really. The entire show would have been different because Kira's involvement in the occupation and the resistance defines so many of the show's main storylines: Duet-Circle Trilogy, Terok Nor (starting in Necessary Evil), the Occupation Arc, Kira goes to Cardassia, just to name a few.
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Old February 11 2013, 01:52 PM   #30
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Re: "10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

flemm wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Since the role was originally created with Forbes in mind, I can imagine they would've adjusted accordingly.
Well, Forbes was going to play Ro (it would have worked liked Chief O'Brien).

It's hard to say how that would have played out, really. The entire show would have been different because Kira's involvement in the occupation and the resistance defines so many of the show's main storylines: Duet-Circle Trilogy, Terok Nor (starting in Necessary Evil), the Occupation Arc, Kira goes to Cardassia, just to name a few.
Much of it would've been the same as they would've simply tweaked the Ro backstory. Ro would've been a long time resistance member who finally ran away to Starfleet.

They tweaked much of the Trill backstory from TNG to make the Curzon/Jadzia Dax story possible.
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