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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 8 2013, 05:43 PM   #76
J.T.B.
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Re: Geordi's Authority

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The only thing is that starship captains tend to be from the command division (unless it's temporary). They don't have to have originated there, but that's where they wind up when starship command is their ultimate job calling.
Well, yeah, they wind up there because COs and XOs have almost always worn command colors. But below that level, the division colors don't seem to indicate who is qualified to command or who is or can aspire to be on a "command track" career path.
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Old February 8 2013, 06:32 PM   #77
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Re: Geordi's Authority

Timo wrote: View Post
Isn't it possible that the Movie-era unifrom still in use during Picard's early carrer had undergone a revision by that time and a white shirt did not denote division.
Everything is possible. The above idea just isn't likely. White was still clearly associated with command in the sense that Captain Garrett wore it on the E-C.
So did Castillo. Both the officers shown on the E-C wore white, that could mean either.
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Old February 8 2013, 09:36 PM   #78
C.E. Evans
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Re: Geordi's Authority

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The only thing is that starship captains tend to be from the command division (unless it's temporary). They don't have to have originated there, but that's where they wind up when starship command is their ultimate job calling.
Well, yeah, they wind up there because COs and XOs have almost always worn command colors. But below that level, the division colors don't seem to indicate who is qualified to command or who is or can aspire to be on a "command track" career path.
Which goes back to what I just said about they don't have to originate from the command division, but that's where captains eventually end up. I don't recall anyone onscreen wearing a non-command division color serving as the permanent captain of a vessel.
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Old February 9 2013, 02:20 AM   #79
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Re: Geordi's Authority

There was a Captain wearing blue sitting on Kirk's court martial board. We might assume that he was qualified to sit in judgment of Kirk because he was an experienced starship commander.
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Old February 9 2013, 02:54 AM   #80
C.E. Evans
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Re: Geordi's Authority

Pavonis wrote: View Post
There was a Captain wearing blue sitting on Kirk's court martial board. We might assume that he was qualified to sit in judgment of Kirk because he was an experienced starship commander.
I thought about him, but couldn't remember if he was a captain or a fleet representative (or something like that). As a captain, though, he might have commanded a science vessel and perhaps was as much the chief scientist as the commanding officer.
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Old February 9 2013, 01:42 PM   #81
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Re: Geordi's Authority

There's a little leeway in choosing which one out of the three people in the board was the "odd man out", Space Command Representative Lindstrom. When Stone introduces the trio, his hand gestures seem to suggest one of the two goldshirts is Lindstrom, and the casting data also shows this was the intention - but casting isn't part of the Star Trek universe, and we might argue the uniforms tell a clearer story than Stone's gesturing.

If, OTOH, we choose to believe in casting intent, then a blueshirt was explicitly addressed as "starship captain".

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Old February 10 2013, 12:21 AM   #82
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Re: Geordi's Authority

I may have missed this somewhere before, but wasn't Jadzia the CO of the Defiant while Sisko was Admiral Ross' adjutant? And wasn't she still in her blue uniform?
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Old February 10 2013, 12:39 AM   #83
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Re: Geordi's Authority

Vanyel wrote: View Post
I may have missed this somewhere before, but wasn't Jadzia the CO of the Defiant while Sisko was Admiral Ross' adjutant? And wasn't she still in her blue uniform?
That was a temporary command, not a permanent one. We've seen non-command division officers take over a ship for a limited duration before like Data did with the Sutherland and Crusher with the Enterprise-D.
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Old February 10 2013, 06:08 AM   #84
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Re: Geordi's Authority

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
I may have missed this somewhere before, but wasn't Jadzia the CO of the Defiant while Sisko was Admiral Ross' adjutant? And wasn't she still in her blue uniform?
That was a temporary command, not a permanent one. We've seen non-command division officers take over a ship for a limited duration before like Data did with the Sutherland and Crusher with the Enterprise-D.
I thought it was a permanent change since Sisko became the Admiral's Adjutant. As Adjutant he wasn't going to be off laying traps for the Jem'Hadar like Jadzia and Worf did. I would say that he was given back command of the Defiant to lead the assault to retake DS9. So while it may have looked temporary, the ship was Jadzia's until it was time for Sisko to retake DS9 and get his old command back.

I'll grant you that my interpretation would be stronger if Jadzia switched to a red uniform. And she does look good in red if Trials and Tribbile-ations is anything to go by.

One last thing, if one need not be a Captain to captain a starship; then it is possible one need not be in red to captain one either. But Jadzia could have been a special case, with 7 hosts worth of experience and the former CO her closest friend, her name plaque for the Captains office could have been sitting in Sisko's room on the Defiant since it came to DS9.
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Old February 10 2013, 10:08 PM   #85
C.E. Evans
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Re: Geordi's Authority

Vanyel wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
I may have missed this somewhere before, but wasn't Jadzia the CO of the Defiant while Sisko was Admiral Ross' adjutant? And wasn't she still in her blue uniform?
That was a temporary command, not a permanent one. We've seen non-command division officers take over a ship for a limited duration before like Data did with the Sutherland and Crusher with the Enterprise-D.
I thought it was a permanent change since Sisko became the Admiral's Adjutant. As Adjutant he wasn't going to be off laying traps for the Jem'Hadar like Jadzia and Worf did. I would say that he was given back command of the Defiant to lead the assault to retake DS9. So while it may have looked temporary, the ship was Jadzia's until it was time for Sisko to retake DS9 and get his old command back.
I think even with Sisko's departure, Jadzia's command was temporary. We've saw Worf in temporary command of the Defiant at the Battle of Sector 001.
I'll grant you that my interpretation would be stronger if Jadzia switched to a red uniform.
Not only that, but Jadzia would likely have been promoted to the actual rank of captain if it was permanent. Depending on what scale of the ship you adhere to, the Defiant was comparable to the USS Equinox, and she rated a full captain in red.
And she does look good in red if Trials and Tribbile-ations is anything to go by.

One last thing, if one need not be a Captain to captain a starship; then it is possible one need not be in red to captain one either. But Jadzia could have been a special case, with 7 hosts worth of experience and the former CO her closest friend, her name plaque for the Captains office could have been sitting in Sisko's room on the Defiant since it came to DS9.
I think by the time of TNG, red is the color of starship/starbase captains (but engineering captains could wear gold and science captains could wear blue, etc.). I believe it was just a case that Jadzia was one of several officers in command of the Defiant during its time with the Second Fleet. Earlier, Worf may have been in command of the ship for awhile.
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Old February 11 2013, 05:18 AM   #86
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Re: Geordi's Authority

A quote that will only add more confusion to the concept;

Eddington: Let's face it..People don't enter Starfleet to become commanders... or admirals for that matter.

It's the Captain's Chair that everyone has their eye on. That's what I wanted when I joined up. But you don't get to be a captain wearing a gold uniform.

Sisko: You could always transfer from Security to Command.
In "Disaster" there was a red shirted Lt Jr Grade who was in command, even though Troi outranked her.

Later after she is killed, and they're wondering who gets command, Obrien states that it is Troi, because she holds the rank of Lt Commander.

And yet Ro who was a red shirt Ensign was automatically passed over. More confusion.

P.S, I think they might chose Dax to captain the Defiant, particularly because of her science experience--for that particular mission.

Last edited by Nightdiamond; February 12 2013 at 04:30 AM.
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