Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too?

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

Surely if anyone would know for sure, it'd be the 30th century time cops who scan time as easily as the 24th century Trekkers scan space. And they called it a "pogo paradox", where interference to prevent an event is what causes it.

It's always a bitch to try and reconcile 45 years of Treks, with generations of writers and producers all with their own idea of how the Trekverse is meant to work. First Contacy and the Enterprise TV series are huge retcons, but I'm more than willing to go with it and pretend Trek's history "always happened" like that. Even if the subject of the NX-01 never once came up in TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY, except for those extra scenes in "The Pegasus" where Riker and Troi suddenly look a lot older.

[Dale Sams]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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There's no way to prove it was not a predestination paradox, let's put it that way.

What a headache.

The events of ENT vs The Borg suggest a predestination paradox.

Yet, are we supposed to believe that Riker and LaForge were predestined to be one of the top five most famous astronauts in history? Shit...what was Cochrane's cover-story for his crewmates? "ahhh...they were some Australian guys who jumped in to help in a pinch, and the Vulcans took them with them."

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Dale Sams wrote:

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Yet, are we supposed to believe that Riker and LaForge were predestined to be one of the top five most famous astronauts in history?

Apparently so.

I agree, it does seem a bit weird. But we have very little to suggest otherwise. Picard and crew returned to the same timeline they left; therefore, it's safe to assume that there was indeed predestination going on here.

Otherwise, the butterfly effect would result in a completely different future - even if La Forge and Riker performed exactly the same actions, spoke the same words, etc. that any "original" astronauts might have done, that's still a change. Even the smallest, most insignificant change will ripple through the centuries and cause massive alterations in time. Ever read "A Sound of Thunder"?

[Ketrick]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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Apparently so.

I agree, it does seem a bit weird. But we have very little to suggest otherwise. Picard and crew returned to the same timeline they left; therefore, it's safe to assume that there was indeed predestination going on here.

Otherwise, the butterfly effect would result in a completely different future - even if La Forge and Riker performed exactly the same actions, spoke the same words, etc. that any "original" astronauts might have done, that's still a change. Even the smallest, most insignificant change will ripple through the centuries and cause massive alterations in time. Ever read "A Sound of Thunder"?

Not necessarily. In "Trials and Tribble-ations", Dulmer and Lucsly confront Captain Sisko about Worf, O'Brien, and Bashir getting involved in the bar fight with the Klingons saying that they may be in a new timeline because of it. Sisko counters that had the timeline changed he and the others would have known. Dulmer and Lucsly didn't contradict him and let him continue reporting what happened. Also, earlier that episode, Sisko refused to describe what happened as a predestination paradox. At no point did Dulmer or Lucsly suggest what happened was one and if anyone would know they would. Therefore, within the confines of Star Trek physics, it appears possible to go back in time and for minor things to be altered without creating a new timeline. Though, this isn't true in all cases as Star Trek demonstrates.

[Pavonis]

It is possible some minor alterations damp out rather than amplify. Not every butterfly wing flap has to radically alter the timeline.