What is "The Fall"? - Page 6

Ben · February 7 2013, 01:46 PM

Let the speculation begin!

http://www.thetrekcollective.com/201...s-on-fall.html

I'm going to spoiler-tag this just in case.

So...

ryan123450 · February 7 2013, 03:31 PM

I will be very pleased if that particular thread isn't left unresolved.

SicOne · February 7 2013, 04:09 PM

Relayer1 wrote:

FatherRob wrote:

vorador33 wrote:

Well if the books aren't allowed to touch anything from the films and Abrams takes as long to get film number 3 into cinemas as he has Into Darkness then they're going to have to slow down eventually regardless of what the editors want.

Since the Hobus Supernova event occurred in the Prime Timeline, I see no legitimate reason - nor have I ever heard one thrown out by anyone officially associated with Trek Lit - that the event cannot be addressed in Prime Timeline books. The only constraint I could see would be if whatever Pocket puts out has to substantially jive with the Countdown comics.

I believe the edict is that nothing in the nuTrek timeline can be touched at the moment by Pocket - outside of film novelizations. That does not include Hobus, which is specifically stated to have occurred in the Prime Timeline.

Of course, I am open to correction...

Rob+

I'd think that they are obligated TO include the Hobus Supernova as part of the deal with tie-ins is to adhere to on-screen cannon.

This question has probably already been answered elsewhere, but...how do we know that the Hobus Supernova as depicted in the 2009 movie will occur in the Trek literature continuity? For example, do we know if the supernova was a naturally-occurring phenomena, or was it caused by some external event that can be altered in future Trek lit?

The Wormhole · February 7 2013, 08:51 PM

SicOne wrote:

This question has probably already been answered elsewhere, but...how do we know that the Hobus Supernova as depicted in the 2009 movie will occur in the Trek literature continuity? For example, do we know if the supernova was a naturally-occurring phenomena, or was it caused by some external event that can be altered in future Trek lit?

Trek XI established that the supernova happens in the Prime Timeline, and since novel continuity has to remain consistent with everything establshed onscreen about the Prime Timeline, it has to depict the supernova exactly as Trek XI did.

Jarvisimo · February 7 2013, 08:57 PM

I do agree: although it's the nuances that matter: there is so much ambiguity in the Hobus narrative in ST (and of course it's told in first person, which is unreliable, etc, etc).

But to be cheeky, trek lit "exactly" being the same "exactly" as used in The Good that Men Do?

(and just to ask - are googlebooks links legal? Last time i used scribd, and that wasn't so cool)

The Wormhole · February 7 2013, 09:22 PM

Jarvisimo wrote:

But to be cheeky, trek lit "exactly" being the same "exactly" as used in The Good that Men Do?

Personally, that's a line I don't think should have been crossed. It's a moot point, that novel is six years old and the storyline it began has been concluded. And yes, I get it, TATV was only a holodeck intrepretation of events, but as far as I'm concerned it's an episode and whatever is depicted within is of equal canonical value as The City on the Edge of Forever or The Best of Both Worlds or whatever is named the best of the various series. I don't deny TATV is a bad episode and terrible finale, but I was disappointed when even Pocket Books stooped to the level of common fanboys and decided to change the episode to suit their whims.

Markonian · February 7 2013, 09:35 PM

Concerning Hobus:
In the STO continuity, which is only loosely tied to Trek Lit,
the supernova was caused by Praetor Taris,
and her Reman allies, under the guidance of the Iconians (STO: Taris).

In the Yesterday's Enterprise timeline, Romulus and Remus still exist in 2409 and were not destroyed (STO: Temporal Ambassador).

Skywalker · February 7 2013, 10:31 PM

IIRC, the only real specific things that we know about the Hobus supernova are that it destroyed Romulus and that it threatened the galaxy. The latter can be interpreted in multiple ways. I look forward to seeing what our esteemed writers and editors come up with.

Mr. Laser Beam · February 7 2013, 11:38 PM

I just hope the thing that's going to "Fall" isn't the Federation. The writers wouldn't do that, would they?

Deranged Nasat · February 7 2013, 11:42 PM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

I just hope the thing that's going to "Fall" isn't the Federation. The writers wouldn't do that, would they?

The news on that front is that the title is apparently an in-joke of sorts in reference to the season, so there isn't necessarily anything falling.

(Prior to learning that, my guess was Romulus; I was indeed hoping this was the 2387 story).

Mr. Laser Beam · February 7 2013, 11:53 PM

^ At the very least, aren't there multiple future time periods (in both onscreen canon and current Treklit) that clearly have the Federation's survival assured? The 29th century of Braxton, the 31st century of Daniels, the Jake & Nog framing story from TGTMD, etc.

The Wormhole · February 8 2013, 12:08 AM

Deranged Nasat wrote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

I just hope the thing that's going to "Fall" isn't the Federation. The writers wouldn't do that, would they?

The news on that front is that the title is apparently an in-joke of sorts in reference to the season, so there isn't necessarily anything falling.

(Prior to learning that, my guess was Romulus; I was indeed hoping this was the 2387 story).

Heh, got to admit, that is kind of clever.

JD · February 8 2013, 12:20 AM

Skywalker wrote:

IIRC, the only real specific things that we know about the Hobus supernova are that it destroyed Romulus and that it threatened the galaxy. The latter can be interpreted in multiple ways. I look forward to seeing what our esteemed writers and editors come up with.

Yeah, I think what we saw in the movie was vague enough that the authors could easily make it more complex than a simple natural supernova.
As to what The Fall refers to, given some of the teases we've been getting lately I wouldn't be surprised if it was more metaphorical, with no actual "falling" taking place during the series.

King Daniel · February 8 2013, 12:28 AM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

I just hope the thing that's going to "Fall" isn't the Federation. The writers wouldn't do that, would they?

My guess is that it's the Typhon Pact.

Although with the Super Bowl ad for the next film promising...

I can see the novels going "Bitch, please!" and killing the entire UFP. Especially with David Mack involved.

Still doubt it. But not as ridiculously impossible an idea as it would have been a decade ago.

Markonian · February 8 2013, 12:32 AM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

^ At the very least, aren't there multiple future time periods (in both onscreen canon and current Treklit) that clearly have the Federation's survival assured? The 29th century of Braxton, the 31st century of Daniels, the Jake & Nog framing story from TGTMD, etc.

Not necessarily. The Federation could fall and be rebuild. What do we know about history from the 26th to the 28th century? Compare the fall and reconstruction of the USA in Postman, Shattered Union and Jericho.

February 7 2013, 01:46 PM	#76
Ben Lieutenant	Re: What is "The Fall"? Let the speculation begin! http://www.thetrekcollective.com/201...s-on-fall.html I'm going to spoiler-tag this just in case. Picard and his crew are dispatched to uncover the truth behind a “prominent figure within the Federation” who’s emerged onto the interstellar stage. It’s discovered that said individual may well be perpetrating a hoax as to their true identity, and has been doing so for years. This kind of sucks, since this person is now in a position to wield enormous power within the Federation. So... Any thoughts on who this imposter could be? Any chance this is following up on what PAD set up for Admiral Nechayev in the recent New Frontier books? __________________ Ben

February 7 2013, 03:31 PM	#77
ryan123450 Commodore Location: Woodward, OK	Re: What is "The Fall"? I will be very pleased if that particular thread isn't left unresolved. __________________ Lost: A Chronological Experience-http://lostchronologically.yolasite.com Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.

February 7 2013, 08:57 PM	#80
Jarvisimo Lieutenant Commander Location: Edinburgh	Re: What is "The Fall"? I do agree: although it's the nuances that matter: there is so much ambiguity in the Hobus narrative in ST (and of course it's told in first person, which is unreliable, etc, etc). But to be cheeky, trek lit "exactly" being the same "exactly" as used in The Good that Men Do? (and just to ask - are googlebooks links legal? Last time i used scribd, and that wasn't so cool) Last edited by Jarvisimo; February 7 2013 at 09:15 PM.

February 7 2013, 09:35 PM	#82
Markonian Commander Location: Cork, Ireland	Re: What is "The Fall"? Concerning Hobus: In the STO continuity, which is only loosely tied to Trek Lit, the supernova was caused by Praetor Taris, and her Reman allies, under the guidance of the Iconians (STO: Taris). In the Yesterday's Enterprise timeline, Romulus and Remus still exist in 2409 and were not destroyed (STO: Temporal Ambassador). __________________ 1.000 years: University Leipzig, 1409-2409 Gorn to be wild!

February 7 2013, 10:31 PM	#83
Skywalker Admiral	Re: What is "The Fall"? IIRC, the only real specific things that we know about the Hobus supernova are that it destroyed Romulus and that it threatened the galaxy. The latter can be interpreted in multiple ways. I look forward to seeing what our esteemed writers and editors come up with.

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February 7 2013, 11:38 PM	#84
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: What is "The Fall"? I just hope the thing that's going to "Fall" isn't the Federation. The writers wouldn't do that, would they? __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

February 7 2013, 11:53 PM	#86
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: What is "The Fall"? ^ At the very least, aren't there multiple future time periods (in both onscreen canon and current Treklit) that clearly have the Federation's survival assured? The 29th century of Braxton, the 31st century of Daniels, the Jake & Nog framing story from TGTMD, etc. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.