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Old February 7 2013, 01:50 AM   #106
hbquikcomjamesl
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

Regarding Lucas swearing up and down that he had always planned on stopping at 6 movies:

I have this vague recollection of something I read, back in 1977 or 1978, that had him projecting a dozen movies. Then, around 1980, I distinctly recall reading that he was talking 9 films. I don't believe he started swearing up and down that he'd only planned on 6 until well after RotJ was released, maybe not until he started working on TPM.

Not sure whether it was a case of diminishing expectations ("The Pyramids of Egypt were originally supposed to be big cubes"), or of using up his story material faster than he'd originally planned.

And yes, Palpatine was given as the Emperor's name in the prologue of the ANH novelization. Although that same prologue also had him ultimately becoming a puppet of his own advisers ("boot-lickers" was the term ADF used, as I recall), rather than being a Sith Lord. Although knowing his devious ways, Palpatine may very well have deliberately led his boot-lickers to believe he was their puppet, when it was to his advantage to do so.
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Old February 7 2013, 01:59 AM   #107
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I was never that big of a Star Wars nerd, nor did I pay a whole lot of attention to movie details when I was a kid. I guess I just never got an ominous feel from Palpatine at the time. Obviously, now that I'm an adult, it makes a lot more sense.
I was absolutely sure that Vader was just tricking Luke.
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Old February 7 2013, 02:15 AM   #108
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
See the way I envisioned it was something like you have Maul show off is uber ninja lightsaber skills in TPM. Then he matches Force wits with Yoda in Clones giving the impression he's one serious BAMF.

Then in the opening sequence he once again bests Anakin, but of course R2 saves the day and Maul retreats to the other seps on Mustafar. The movies progresses (mostly) as is, Palps christens Vader and sends him off to kill Maul as an initiation thing. So, ultimately we're left with this scenario:

Anakin Skywalker cannot defeat Maul, only Darth Fucking Vader can.
Love it. And more proof that your average dude on the internet can write a better screenplay than George Lucas.
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Old February 7 2013, 02:24 AM   #109
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

I'm hoping we do get the Han Solo and/or Boba Fett movies. I'm not sure what to think of a Yoda movie. If it is just a stand alone adventure along the lines of Dark Rendezvous, I would be cool with it. But I agree Tor.com's Ryan Britt that if they reveal too much about him, it could ruin the character. I thought the book did a good job of giving us a Yoda-centric adventure that was able to give us some good insights into the character, without revealing to much about him.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:17 AM   #110
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

Not surprised at the additional movies. Disney is utilizing the franchise to it's maximum potential.

Movies
toys
TV
tie-in merchandise

etc,etc
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Old February 7 2013, 03:22 AM   #111
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

Set Harth wrote: View Post
cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
Palpatine had actually been the actual name of the Emperor as far back as a comic book or strip around the beginning of the '80s although his name never made it on-screen until the prequels came along.
Even earlier than that; the first reference to Palpatine as the name of the Emperor was in the first printing of the Star Wars novelization which was released in late 1976.

( However, the book also has an obscure reference to "later corrupt Emperors" plural, so technically it might not have indicated Palpatine as the name of the current Emperor. But this was corrected by the time of the ROTJ novelization. )
That was c. 1977, Palpatine was only a bureaucrat in the Nixonian mode who overthrew the Old Republic and became the first in a long line of Emperors. The Sith were just the equivalent of the praetorian guard with Vader being one of many Sith Lords.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:39 AM   #112
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

A Han Solo might work but they would have to really, totally nail it with the casting.

I've never been a huge Boba Fett fanboy. A solo movie might demystify him too much. But I'll still go see it.

tighr wrote: View Post
My only question at the time was who was the actual Phantom? The secret Darth Sideous guy (who was obviously McDiarmid), or the secret Darth Maul guy who had five lines? Lucas did a shitty job of making that clear. (And now I remember the Yoda line at the end of the movie, so yeah. But still.)
From dictionary.com, "phantom":
2. an appearance or illusion without material substance, as a dream image, mirage, or optical illusion.
3. a person or thing of merely illusory power, status, efficacy, etc.: the phantom of fear.

I think perhaps the "Phantom Menace" was the Trade Federation and their invasion of Naboo. Senator Palpatine manufactured this threat to Naboo so that he could get himself elected Chancellor in place of Valorum.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:42 AM   #113
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
A Tarantino Boba Fett flick? We'd all go see that.
I do see one problem with the idea of Tarantino directing a Boba Fett movie, however. Fett isn't the type of character that would spout trademark Tarantino dialogue, and I'd wonder if Tarantino could rein himself in to keep such dialogue out of Fett's mouth.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:54 AM   #114
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
I have this vague recollection of something I read, back in 1977 or 1978, that had him projecting a dozen movies. Then, around 1980, I distinctly recall reading that he was talking 9 films. I don't believe he started swearing up and down that he'd only planned on 6 until well after RotJ was released, maybe not until he started working on TPM.
References to 12 movies show up in "Bantha Tracks", the official Star Wars Fan Club newsletter. In #3 (July 1978), there's a statement that says "The sequel [TESB] will be based directly on the second of twelve stories George Lucas wrote in the Adventures of Luke Skywalker". Then in #8 (Spring 1980), in an interview with Lucas, the interviewer states "At one point there were going to be twelve Star Wars films", to which Lucas replied "I cut that number down to nine because the other three were tangential to the saga." These are the obvious references to 12 or 9 films that I am aware of, but there may be others out there in that time frame.
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Old February 7 2013, 04:21 AM   #115
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

This easily has all the potential of The Ewok Adventure.
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Old February 7 2013, 04:47 AM   #116
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

Like I've said, Wookies grow shorter with age, Endor was a retirement home.
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Old February 7 2013, 05:16 AM   #117
hbquikcomjamesl
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

Racer_X wrote: View Post
References to 12 movies show up in "Bantha Tracks", the official Star Wars Fan Club newsletter. In #3 (July 1978), there's a statement that says "The sequel [TESB] will be based directly on the second of twelve stories George Lucas wrote in the Adventures of Luke Skywalker". Then in #8 (Spring 1980), in an interview with Lucas, the interviewer states "At one point there were going to be twelve Star Wars films", to which Lucas replied "I cut that number down to nine because the other three were tangential to the saga." These are the obvious references to 12 or 9 films that I am aware of, but there may be others out there in that time frame.
Thank you for confirming that I didn't imagine it.



Regarding the prologue from ADF's novelization of ANH:

. . . Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people, and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.

Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.

Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the Imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.
. . . From the First Saga, Journal of the Whills

-- STAR WARS: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, New York: Ballantine, 1977; Hardbound Ballantine Books Edition: October 1977. First Edition: December 1976. Page 1.
No reference to any other Emperors.
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Old February 7 2013, 05:27 AM   #118
tighr
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
My only question at the time was who was the actual Phantom? The secret Darth Sideous guy (who was obviously McDiarmid), or the secret Darth Maul guy who had five lines? Lucas did a shitty job of making that clear. (And now I remember the Yoda line at the end of the movie, so yeah. But still.)
From dictionary.com, "phantom":
2. an appearance or illusion without material substance, as a dream image, mirage, or optical illusion.
3. a person or thing of merely illusory power, status, efficacy, etc.: the phantom of fear.

I think perhaps the "Phantom Menace" was the Trade Federation and their invasion of Naboo. Senator Palpatine manufactured this threat to Naboo so that he could get himself elected Chancellor in place of Valorum.
See, the very fact that we're discussing it and have come up with now a third possibility means it was confusing. It is the only of the six titles that is unclear.

And its not vague in that double entendre way, either. It's supposed to be someone or something.
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Old February 7 2013, 05:35 AM   #119
sojourner
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
Racer_X wrote: View Post
References to 12 movies show up in "Bantha Tracks", the official Star Wars Fan Club newsletter. In #3 (July 1978), there's a statement that says "The sequel [TESB] will be based directly on the second of twelve stories George Lucas wrote in the Adventures of Luke Skywalker". Then in #8 (Spring 1980), in an interview with Lucas, the interviewer states "At one point there were going to be twelve Star Wars films", to which Lucas replied "I cut that number down to nine because the other three were tangential to the saga." These are the obvious references to 12 or 9 films that I am aware of, but there may be others out there in that time frame.

Thank you for confirming that I didn't imagine it.



Regarding the prologue from ADF's novelization of ANH:

. . . Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people, and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.

Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.

Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the Imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.
. . . From the First Saga, Journal of the Whills

-- STAR WARS: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, New York: Ballantine, 1977; Hardbound Ballantine Books Edition: October 1977. First Edition: December 1976. Page 1.
No reference to any other Emperors.
Dammit, now you're making me want to dig out my original "soon to be a major motion picture" paperback edition.
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Old February 7 2013, 05:42 AM   #120
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Re: More Star Wars films announced

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
Sidious/Palpatine was "the phantom menace," that much was clear long ago. Palpatine takes advantage of a major crisis and maneuvers to get elected Supreme Chancellor....Maul (the Sith apprentice) is defeated and believed dead....and as Yoda and Mace discuss which Sith was actually the Master there's a partial camera zoom on the profile of Palpatine as he sternly watches Qui-Gon's funeral pyre.

Palpatine was behind the events in Episode I (of course it didn't hurt that the voice, lower face and chin of Darth Sidious were identical to Palpatine's ). Plus, if you collected Star Wars figures before 1999 you knew that the Emperor's name was Palpatine. So....there's that.
If you parse "The Phantom Menace" into the form "article/adjective/noun", then it becomes synonymous with "The Fake Threat", because "phantom"—when it is an adjective—means "fake", cf. a phantom punch in boxing. As the fake threat, the title is clearly referring to the events which were manipulated by Palpatine to provide the pretext for his seizing of power, namely the invasion of Naboo. Now, the threat was real to the Naboo, but it was fake in that the person behind the organization of that threat coincided with the person who rescued the Naboo from it, fake in the sense that the person behind it never intended to carry the plan, as it was understood by the Trade Federation, all the way through. Betrayal of the Trade Federation was always part of Palpatine's master plan.

Now, that having been said, I strongly suspect that in addition to that meaning, the title alludes to a phantom as a noun, which would be an unreal form. I agree that the title plays off the meaning that it would have if you read it as "The Menacing Phantom".

Palpatine is two-faced, so he has elements that are ghostlike. Additionally, Darth Sidious is only seen by the Trade Federation, and first seen by us, as a hologram, another kind of fake form.

Additionally, Obi-Wan's first words when he boards the Federation ship are that he senses something elusive. Whatever he sensed was menacing and ghostlike. That thing that Obi-Wan felt could simply be the Dark Side of the Force itself.

The title could allude to all these things on multiple layers, but the primary grammatical meaning is "The Fake Threat".
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