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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old February 5 2013, 03:23 AM   #1741
Use of Time
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Vulcan Academy Murders by Jean Lorrah. I've always wondered why writers feel the constant need for Vulcans to "humanize" themselves in order to endear themselves to the audience whether that be as an ally or an antagonist. It's always annoyed me that it seemed like humans had this knack for getting emotions out of Vulcans in situations that I think really shouldn't be beyond Vulcan control.

Some examples.
1. The way Archer seemed to "piss off" Soval at times.
2. Sisko and the crew getting the old Vulcan classmate all pissed off over a baseball game. This one is the worst, I've been subjected to trash talk from bitter rivals in high school and was able to supres any emotional response. You're telling me this seasoned Vulcan can't?
3. Kirk causing Sendet to get snippy in the novel I mentioned above when he adds him to his list of suspects.
4. T'Pol just throws everything out the window on Enterprise so I don't even know if she is worth bringing up.
5. Spock did a great job throughout TOS but seemed like a participant at open mic night at the local comedy club in the later movies.

Just something I noticed when reading this book.

The reason I say this is because Data was able to retain his stoic demeanor throughout the entire TNG series while remaining a dynamic character. Why couldn't they just have a rigid Vulcan that can maintain emotional control throughout?
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Old February 5 2013, 10:52 AM   #1742
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Just posted my review of David R. George III's Allegiance in Exile. Enjoyed, for the most part. I'm definitely a fan of his work, and I'm looking forward to his entry in The Fall series this, well, fall.

In the last little while, I've read The Vulcan Academy Murders by Jean Lorrah, The Belly of the Beast, Fatal Error, Hard Crash, and Interphase (parts one and two) from the SCE series for the first time (loving this series, by the way!), and John Vornholt's A Time to Be Born. Reviews for all of these are coming. Eventually!

Right now, I'm going back and forth between F. Scott Fitzgerald's modern classic, The Great Gatsby, and The Gargoyle by Andrew Davidson for a book club I've joined.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:26 PM   #1743
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Why couldn't they just have a rigid Vulcan that can maintain emotional control throughout?
You could add Selar and Soleta to your list.

But how about Tuvok? His emotional outbursts in VOY were infrequent (e.g. Suder's mind meld). Though his walls have come down in TTN.
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Old February 6 2013, 01:42 AM   #1744
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

I'm sure there are several examples in the novels as well. Thanks for pointing that out. As I finished The Vulcan Academy Murders there were several more examples I found by the time that book finished.
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Old February 7 2013, 01:38 AM   #1745
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Markonian wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
Why couldn't they just have a rigid Vulcan that can maintain emotional control throughout?
You could add Selar and Soleta to your list.

But how about Tuvok? His emotional outbursts in VOY were infrequent (e.g. Suder's mind meld). Though his walls have come down in TTN.
I don't think Soleta should be included there, she's not a full Vulcan.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:02 AM   #1746
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

JD wrote: View Post
I don't think Soleta should be included there, she's not a full Vulcan.
She's half-Vulcan, half-Romulan, which means she's 100% Vulcan by species. The differences between Vulcans and Romulans are cultural, not genetic (aside from some cosmetic differences which would be equivalent to ethnic variations). So her biology (or Saavik's) should have no bearing whatsoever on her personality. Vulcan control is a matter of upbringing. A pure Vulcan raised by Romulans would act like a Romulan, and vice-versa.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:15 AM   #1747
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Sure but the original question stands. Off all the races Vulcans have encountered, humans seem to be able to push the right buttons to get an emotional response.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:26 AM   #1748
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Sure but the original question stands. Off all the races Vulcans have encountered, humans seem to be able to push the right buttons to get an emotional response.
Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens's superb Soval-Forrest scene in "The Forge" may shed some light on that:

SOVAL: We don't know what to do about humans. Of all the species we've made contact with, yours is the only one we can't define. You have the arrogance of Andorians, the stubborn pride of Tellarites. One moment, you're as driven by your emotions as Klingons, and the next, you confound us by suddenly embracing logic.
FORREST: I'm sure those qualities are found in every species.
SOVAL: Not in such confusing abundance.
FORREST: Ambassador. Are Vulcans afraid of humans? Why?
SOVAL: Because there is one species you remind us of.
FORREST: Vulcans.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:31 AM   #1749
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Christopher wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
Sure but the original question stands. Off all the races Vulcans have encountered, humans seem to be able to push the right buttons to get an emotional response.
Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens's superb Soval-Forrest scene in "The Forge" may shed some light on that:

SOVAL: We don't know what to do about humans. Of all the species we've made contact with, yours is the only one we can't define. You have the arrogance of Andorians, the stubborn pride of Tellarites. One moment, you're as driven by your emotions as Klingons, and the next, you confound us by suddenly embracing logic.
FORREST: I'm sure those qualities are found in every species.
SOVAL: Not in such confusing abundance.
FORREST: Ambassador. Are Vulcans afraid of humans? Why?
SOVAL: Because there is one species you remind us of.
FORREST: Vulcans.
That is actually perfect and the closest thing we will probably get to an answer on that question. I should have known to go back to Enterprise for this.
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Old February 7 2013, 06:18 PM   #1750
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Finished Allegiance in Exile, now onto the second Titan novel, The Red King.
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Old February 7 2013, 06:46 PM   #1751
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

I finished Trial By Error I really liked the story and how the Ds9 characters were written in this book.The story takes between season 4 & 5 When the Kligons and Cardassians weren't getting along and the Dominion is a threat..I'm now reading book 1 of Kevin Ryan's Errand of Fury Miniseries.Seeds of Fury.I've only read a few chapters but I like how the story of the tension between the Starfleet and the Klingons is written and how the organins will be become involved in one of the other books in this series.
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Old February 7 2013, 08:19 PM   #1752
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
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Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
To the point where I am (seventy-five pages), I have mixed feelings.
I'm interested in hearing what you thought of it when you're done. I enjoyed the book a lot, though not quite as much as the original stories. The solution to the mystery is very, very different from anything Doyle would have written, yet the book still somehow remains convincingly in-universe. I found there was a touch of melancholy in Watson's narration at some points, as he realizes this is the last tale he'll ever tell about his friend.
I finished it on Sunday after Downton Abbey, and I posted some thoughts on my blog.

Here's a key sentence from that: "Silk reads as if Horowitz decided to write a “Sherlock Holmes greatest hits” novel, and he decided to pack in so many of the iconic scenes and passages from the Canon as he could that, by the end, I was half expecting an appearance by Irene Adler."

By and large I thought the writing felt like Watson's, though there were some moments when it really didn't like when Watson comments from his future vantage point on the events in the story's present.

"The Adventure of the Flat-Cap Gang" was, I thought, a little mundane, but it also felt more authentically Canonical. "The Adventure of the House of Silk" had more in common with some of the more lurid Jack-the-Ripper theories and didn't feel very Canonical at all. Ironically, it was the House of Silk mystery that I solved (except for where it was) before it was solved in the book, and I didn't suss out the Flat-Cap Gang solution at all.

I admired the book more than I liked it. It's well-written, it's certainly evocative and gripping, but I also didn't find it to be anything special -- or worthy of the critical notice it received for being authorized by the Doyle estate. It's nothing more than another Sherlock Holmes pastiche.
It's been awhile since I read the book, but this conversation inspired me to get the audiobook from the library. I agree with you about making too much out of the estate's authorization; I don't think that makes it anything more than a pastiche either. But I've read a few pastiches in my time, and this is definitely one of the better ones. So I liked it purely on those grounds.

As for my reading, I just started a book called The Floating Admiral...written by a whole bunch of authors! Back in the Golden Age of detective fiction, circa 1930s, many of the best-selling writers of the day (including Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers) were part of an informal group called The Detection Club. And one day someone got the crazy idea to write a collaborative novel. Each writer produced a chapter, handed it on to the next writer, and so on. The solution was not foreseen at the outset, so the last person had to tie everything together. In addition, each contributor handed in their own solution in a sealed envelope to be printed at the back of the book. It sounds like a giant mess...but really it was just a game they played with themselves for their own amusement. And it couldn't have been that bad because they did it a couple more times.
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Old February 7 2013, 11:09 PM   #1753
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

I'm currently reading Mosaic by Jeri Taylor, it's a pretty solid biography on future captain Janeway.
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Old February 8 2013, 12:38 AM   #1754
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Just got an advance copy of Devil's Bargain by Tony Daniel. Can't wait to start reading it.
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Old February 8 2013, 04:59 AM   #1755
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Just got an advance copy of Devil's Bargain by Tony Daniel. Can't wait to start reading it.
Lucky Bast***! Looking forward to that one, let us know what you think Greg.
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