Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion - Page 4

bullethead · February 5 2013, 10:07 PM

Ronald Held wrote:

I would prefer the ships scale roughly to their sizes in the Prime universe

And I prefer to see the Abramsverse sizes, because at least then Starfleet can fit lots of shuttles that can hold more than a dozen people into their ships, as opposed to the half-dozen tiny shuttles most non-Galaxy class ships got

Mr. Laser Beam · February 5 2013, 10:21 PM

Therin of Andor wrote:

did you really want JJ to put a 60s era TOS bridge on the big screen?

The Kelvin bridge was a fine representation of what the actual TOS-era Enterprise would have looked like. And fitting, too, because that was supposed to BE the Enterprise before JJ was ordered to change it.

ATimson · February 5 2013, 11:16 PM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

The Kelvin bridge was a fine representation of what the actual TOS-era Enterprise would have looked like. And fitting, too, because that was supposed to BE the Enterprise before JJ was ordered to change it.

Which is good. Because then it would have stomped all over April's appearance in Final Frontier in the Prime Universe.

Mr. Laser Beam · February 5 2013, 11:30 PM

ATimson wrote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

The Kelvin bridge was a fine representation of what the actual TOS-era Enterprise would have looked like. And fitting, too, because that was supposed to BE the Enterprise before JJ was ordered to change it.

Which is good. Because then it would have stomped all over April's appearance in Final Frontier in the Prime Universe.

Come again?

BillJ · February 5 2013, 11:55 PM

bullethead wrote:

Ronald Held wrote:

I would prefer the ships scale roughly to their sizes in the Prime universe

And I prefer to see the Abramsverse sizes, because at least then Starfleet can fit lots of shuttles that can hold more than a dozen people into their ships, as opposed to the half-dozen tiny shuttles most non-Galaxy class ships got

Am I the only one who doesn't care about the size of the ships?

Therin of Andor · February 6 2013, 12:11 AM

ATimson wrote:

Which is good. Because then it would have stomped all over April's appearance in Final Frontier in the Prime Universe.

As much as we might love them, the novels are read by no more than 2% of a typical cinema audience.

King Daniel Into Darkness · February 6 2013, 12:30 AM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

ATimson wrote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

The Kelvin bridge was a fine representation of what the actual TOS-era Enterprise would have looked like. And fitting, too, because that was supposed to BE the Enterprise before JJ was ordered to change it.

Which is good. Because then it would have stomped all over April's appearance in Final Frontier in the Prime Universe.

Come again?

Final Frontier was a fantastic novel by Diane Carey. No relation to the fifth movie, and incompatible with the Enterprise TV series. The version of George Kirk in Star Trek was based on the version in this and it's sequel, Best Destiny.

Mr. Laser Beam · February 6 2013, 12:33 AM

^ I have read that novel, I'm just wondering what it has to do with having April in STXI (instead of Robau).

I mean, Final Frontier isn't even consistent with current Treklit, and of course an actual film wouldn't need to be consistent with any novel...of course FF is indeed a very good novel, but even the best novels can and do get stomped on quite a bit.

ATimson · February 6 2013, 12:38 AM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

^ I have read that novel, I'm just wondering what it has to do with having April in STXI (instead of Robau).

I was thinking in terms of how it would have the Enterprise in service a decade early... I'd forgotten that it wasn't compatible with Enterprise (and am not sure how it's not compatible with other TrekLit, unless it's for reasons deriving from that).

Mostly, that was a (perhaps misguided) attempt to bring the conversation back to Countdown to Darkness.

Mr. Laser Beam · February 6 2013, 12:42 AM

ATimson wrote:

I was thinking in terms of how it would have the Enterprise in service a decade early... I'd forgotten that it wasn't compatible with Enterprise (and am not sure how it's not compatible with other TrekLit, unless it's for reasons deriving from that

I can think of at least one reason - FF uses the dating system from the Spaceflight Chronology.

King Daniel Into Darkness · February 6 2013, 01:06 AM

Yeah, I think the given year is 2188. But using relative dating (i.e. Jim Kirk's age), it adjusts to 2244 - an almost perfect fit for the conjectural TOS Enterprise launch date of 2245.

I think the problem vs. the original movie opening would have been, the Enterprise in service earlier than that adjusted date, in 2233.

The problems vs. Enterprise and the rest of post-1988 Trek are numerous. Technology, the way the pre-TOS Federation is described, and even the idea that April, as much as I liked the character, would ever become captain (he was such a pacifict he turned command of the ship over to George during battle because he couldn't bear to fire at a living being)

ATimson · February 6 2013, 01:58 AM

King Daniel wrote:

The problems vs. Enterprise and the rest of post-1988 Trek are numerous. Technology, the way the pre-TOS Federation is described, and even the idea that April, as much as I liked the character, would ever become captain (he was such a pacifict he turned command of the ship over to George during battle because he couldn't bear to fire at a living being)

Ah, the things you forget when you haven't read a book in a decade because there's no ebook version yet.

ronny · February 6 2013, 02:01 AM

BillJ wrote:

Am I the only one who doesn't care about the size of the ships?

No. I have no idea why it's a thing.

ChristopherPike · February 6 2013, 03:40 AM

Back to all this talk of Robert April and him being former Captain of a starship called Enterprise.

The NX-01 did fly around the Expanse for a hundred years once... so it's not a question of the ship not being spaceworthy. Generations onboard once kept it going, even if it did look in a right old state. But there's no way that Enterprise would still be in Starfleet service by the 23rd Century. It would be in the Fleet Museum like visitors going to see a space shuttle today and stay there well-preserved until the 24th, so that Deanna Troi can get it mixed up with all the other historical ships. Unless it were another NX class, or a replica and not the original.

That would be a crazier reference than a joke about a beagle, to try and squeeze in with any credibility. April looks to be in an earlier Starfleet uniform and presumably had a fresh off the production line Enterprise to command. Even if he were in charge of a trainee cadet vessel, that would still require something newer than the NX-01. So no sticking to anything we've seen established before... except Kirk's Enterprise was more than a decade later getting into space.

It'll be interesting what, if any of this makes it into Star Trek Into Darkness. Conspiracy theories and a cover-up involving a previous Enterprise being kept out of the history books, would be interesting as the plot alone. I hope this isn't going to involve coming across a three-hundred year old Botany Bay. That would begin to read more like convenient fan-fiction than bringing the NX-01 into all of this!

King Daniel Into Darkness · February 6 2013, 03:14 PM

April's wearing the 2258 duty uniform - just without the undershirt. Either he wants to show off his man clevage or perhaps Mr. Harrison stole it...

As for the NX-01, it seems an updated version of the ship may have been designed and used as set decoration at Starfleet Academy. Here's a post I made about it in the XI+ forum:

King Daniel wrote:

I came across this while googling and thought it might be of interest. Someone who was there when they were filming the Starfleet Academy scenes at the CSUN's Oviatt Library says there was a picture of the NX-01 inside the building.
http://trekmovie.com/2008/03/18/csun...cademy/#524276

Comment 65:

Hat Rick wrote:

The interior of Oviatt Library was set- dressed with photographs drawn from NASA and other sources. There was also what appeared to be a photo of the NX-01, albeit in futurized form. As a joke, there was also a tipped-over photograph of a bull on the photo display at the rear of the front entranced hall.

2. The Oviatt glass doors were decorated with the Starfleet emblem.

3. SPOILER: At approximately 4:00 p.m., about a hundred cadets rushed toward the eastern blue screen at the Quadrangle and craned their necks upward with excitement as if looking at a starship landing.
You heard it here first, folks. I was there.

Comment 86:

The futurized NX-01 was a framed print of a fairly elaborate painting and showed it passing through about several large planets and a small moon. I don’t know if it was a preproduction concept painting before the NX-01 design had been finalized for the series, Enterprise, but it didn’t look like it to me.

Comment 129:

One tidbit about the “futurized” NX-01: There are downward-sloping fins protruding from the belly of each nacelle and what seems to be some kind of gun- type thing where the main navigational deflector dish would be. The fins are fairly long — I woudl say about a quarter to a third the length of the nacelles themselves. It’s definitely not the NX-01 of the TV series

Sounds like they were filming the scene where the cadets run to see Nero's drill beam firing into the bay.

If this account is true and the inside of the library was dressed, maybe the NX-01 picture would have been visible through the glass if they'd shot Kirk and McCoy's pre-Kobayashi Maru scene coming down the stairs from a different angle or started talking inside the building or something.

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February 6 2013, 12:33 AM	#53
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion ^ I have read that novel, I'm just wondering what it has to do with having April in STXI (instead of Robau). I mean, Final Frontier isn't even consistent with current Treklit, and of course an actual film wouldn't need to be consistent with any novel...of course FF is indeed a very good novel, but even the best novels can and do get stomped on quite a bit. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

February 6 2013, 01:06 AM	#56
King Daniel Into Darkness Admiral Location: Behind the aft nacelle	Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion Yeah, I think the given year is 2188. But using relative dating (i.e. Jim Kirk's age), it adjusts to 2244 - an almost perfect fit for the conjectural TOS Enterprise launch date of 2245. I think the problem vs. the original movie opening would have been, the Enterprise in service earlier than that adjusted date, in 2233. The problems vs. Enterprise and the rest of post-1988 Trek are numerous. Technology, the way the pre-TOS Federation is described, and even the idea that April, as much as I liked the character, would ever become captain (he was such a pacifict he turned command of the ship over to George during battle because he couldn't bear to fire at a living being) __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3

February 6 2013, 03:40 AM	#59
ChristopherPike Rear Admiral	Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion Back to all this talk of Robert April and him being former Captain of a starship called Enterprise. The NX-01 did fly around the Expanse for a hundred years once... so it's not a question of the ship not being spaceworthy. Generations onboard once kept it going, even if it did look in a right old state. But there's no way that Enterprise would still be in Starfleet service by the 23rd Century. It would be in the Fleet Museum like visitors going to see a space shuttle today and stay there well-preserved until the 24th, so that Deanna Troi can get it mixed up with all the other historical ships. Unless it were another NX class, or a replica and not the original. That would be a crazier reference than a joke about a beagle, to try and squeeze in with any credibility. April looks to be in an earlier Starfleet uniform and presumably had a fresh off the production line Enterprise to command. Even if he were in charge of a trainee cadet vessel, that would still require something newer than the NX-01. So no sticking to anything we've seen established before... except Kirk's Enterprise was more than a decade later getting into space. It'll be interesting what, if any of this makes it into Star Trek Into Darkness. Conspiracy theories and a cover-up involving a previous Enterprise being kept out of the history books, would be interesting as the plot alone. I hope this isn't going to involve coming across a three-hundred year old Botany Bay. That would begin to read more like convenient fan-fiction than bringing the NX-01 into all of this! __________________ STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE Tribute ►http://youtu.be/myS87yTTDes Last edited by ChristopherPike; February 6 2013 at 04:04 AM.

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