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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 5 2013, 08:20 PM   #16
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Location: West Haven, UT, USA
Re: Kai Winn

Winn is actually one of my favorite recurring characters from DS9.

She's an excellent foil for Sisko (even moreso than Dukat, who ends up replacing her as the 'anti-Emmisary') and Kira, and I see a lot of similarities between her and Caprica's Clarice Willow (the only difference being that the writers seemed to know exactly what they wanted to do with Winn from the moment she was introduced, which wasn't exactly the case with Clarice).

I also love Louise Fletcher's performance.
Starbuck: We're all friendlies. So, let's just... be friendly.
"There is no 'supposed to be.' It's an adaptation, a word that literally means change. Why bother making a new version if it doesn't offer a fresh approach?" - Christopher L. Bennett
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Old February 5 2013, 08:30 PM   #17
Peach Wookiee
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Re: Kai Winn

teacake wrote: View Post
I went "EWWWW..." at her in bed with Dukat.
It's a bit schadenfreude, but I laugh. I only laugh because it's Winn Adami and she's a dreadful, dreadful person.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:46 PM   #18
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Re: Kai Winn

The Adami (ah-DAH-mee) pronounciation is hard for me to get used to, as I knew a guy with Adami as a last name, and he pronounced it ADD-uh-mee.
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Old February 5 2013, 09:09 PM   #19
Paper Moon
Re: Kai Winn

Winn is definitely the most unlikeable character in my books. (Even Dukat has his moments of sympathy.)

With the caveat that I loved what we got, and I think they used her well, I think making Winn the Kai over Bareil was a short-sighted decision. Yeah, it makes more drama to have Sisko be in opposition to Bajoran leadership, but we get plenty of conflict throughout the course of the series. I think it would've been more interesting for Bareil to be Kai, and explore a gradually strengthening relationship between the UFP and Bajor. There's all sort of conflict inherent in that sort of unification, and then would've created a very difficult situation, for Sisko, in particular, when the Dominion invades. I think that would've been a more mature story-telling decision.

It also touches on one of the great missed opportunities of DS9: developing Bajor (which got shunted off to the side, especially once the Dominion came along).
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Old February 6 2013, 02:33 AM   #20
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Re: Kai Winn

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
I think it would've been more interesting for Bareil to be Kai,
My god, paint drying. I've watched DS9 through 4 times and I can't even remember what he looks like.

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Old February 6 2013, 06:00 AM   #21
Dale Sams
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Re: Kai Winn

tighr wrote: View Post
Eh, in the end, she gets hers.
Actually, one could argue that she's welcome with open arms in whatever heavan the Bajorans have. Seemed to me that she had a role to fulfill at the end and she filled it admirably. The Prophets COULD have appeared to her at any time when she stayed up all night praying.
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Old February 6 2013, 07:42 PM   #22
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Re: Kai Winn

I really didn't find her end satisfying at all.

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Old February 6 2013, 08:11 PM   #23
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Re: Kai Winn

Winn and Dukat. What was interesting about Dukat was his ability to gradually endear himself to the crew including Kira at times. Every once in a while you would be saying "he's not such a bad kind." Then he would revert to his natural evil self. Fletcher and Alaimo with the addition of Combs often times stole the show from the main cast in my opinion.
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Old February 6 2013, 08:16 PM   #24
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Re: Kai Winn

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Winn was a great character, someone you love to hate, played brilliantly and given her own well-executed arc.
Exactly! I hate Winn for all the right reasons. She was a great character. Deliciously power hungry, selfish in every way, and quick to embrace evil to make gains. Just when you think she's going to change her ways, Winn does something more twisted than you could have imagined. And she had the huge benefit of an outstanding actress to fill her shoes. It's one thing to hate a character because the character is boring, inconsistent, played poorly or written poorly. It's quite another to LOVE to hate a character. And ironically, Winn is one of the reasons why I love DS9.
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Old February 7 2013, 05:09 PM   #25
Dal Rassak
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Re: Kai Winn

I may be alone in this opinion but I think of her as a truly tragic character (while being a royal pain in the behind)...

One of my favourite scenes is where she speaks to Kira, reaching out for some kind of redemption; as soon as Kira suggests that perhaps the right thing would be for Winn to step down, you see the shutters come down and at that moment you have the key to the character.

Her devotion is sincere but it is always conditional: I worship you, what do I get in return?

Having convinced herself she was spared her life to lead the Bajoran people to a new golden age, thus neatly conflating her spiritual yearnings with her wordly ambitions, she could never accept that she isn't the "chosen one". She's so sold on the idea that she's somehow worthy of a higher fate, the very notion that she might better serve in a less exalted capacity is anathema to her.

She is incapable of true humility and she could never countenance the fact that the fault lies with herself - another thing in common with Dukat.
She yearns to hear the Prophets' voice but is really only prepared for them to tell her what she wants to hear. Her heart isn't open to the message they are sending her by their silence. Ask yourself why we're not talking to you.

Her tragedy for me lies in the fact that her desire for goodness is real, but is consistently trumped by her desire for power. With her soul on the line, she still won't give it up, or even see why she should.
When her gods fall silent, she almost comes to the crucial realization. When she speaks to Kira, she is brought to the very brink of redemption.
Then it comes down to her leaping over her own shadow for once which she cannot do, and she loses to the worse part of herself.

I couldn't stand her, which was the entire point, but I can feel sorry for her in that moment. Very subtly done, very poignant.
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