RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,584
Posts: 5,423,904
Members: 24,809
Currently online: 554
Newest member: Super Scout

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Coto Drama Sold To Fox
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Braga Inks Deal
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Remastered Original Series Re-release
By: T'Bonz on Sep 11

UK Trek Ships Calendar Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Sep 10


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 5 2013, 08:38 PM   #121
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
DS9 was so great because it didn't have to water itself down too much. Which it would have had to have done if it become a Hollywood blockbuster.
Once again, they had 178 episodes to tell a story, the 2009 film had two-hours. Surely you know there should be a difference in tempo and style between the two?
Still waiting for DalekJim to answer this one...
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:40 PM   #122
Garrovick
Commander
 
Garrovick's Avatar
 
Location: wallowing in a pool of emotion
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

There's been quite a lot of discussion about the merits of ST09-style battles versus DS9/TWOK-style battles.

I know this won't happen with Into Darkness, but would it be asking too much for someone to make a good Star Trek movie with no space battles? Just for a change of pace? Imagine a ST movie where absolutely no one dies at all - the last (actually, the only) ST movie that had no deaths at all in it was The Voyage Home, which was released 27 years ago! Not to mention that TVH did quite well at the box office, was well received by fans and the critics for the most part, and brought a lot of people into the theatres who weren't die-hard fans. Not saying I want them to do a remake, but TVH proves that you can make a successful ST movie without space battles/explosions/Fire Everything!/planets being destroyed/starships crashing/etc.

Just saying.
Garrovick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:40 PM   #123
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post

One of the annoying things about DS9 was just how tepid and TV-safe their treatment of war and all the issues involved really was
Strongly disagree. The treatment of the Bajoran/Cardassian feud alone was better handled than almost all real life wars are in TV dramas. An episode like Duet knocks most television in to dust.
M*A*S*H presented life on the front lines of a war-zone in a far more realistic and frank manner in the early-70's than DS9 did in the 90's.
As did "China Beach" in the years immediately before DS9 aired.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:46 PM   #124
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
Still waiting for DalekJim to answer this one...

Being a movie is not an excuse for being stupid. As a cinephile, that attitude will always irk me.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:46 PM   #125
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Garrovick wrote: View Post
There's been quite a lot of discussion about the merits of ST09-style battles versus DS9etc.-style battles.

I know this won't happen with Into Darkness, but would it be asking too much for someone to make a good Star Trek movie with no space battles? Just for a change of pace? Imagine a ST movie where absolutely no one dies at all - the last (actually, the only) ST movie that had no deaths at all in it was The Voyage Home, which was released 27 years ago! Not to mention that TVH did quite well at the box office, was well received by fans and the critics for the most part, and brought a lot of people into the theatres who weren't die-hard fans. Not saying I want them to do a remake, but TVH proves that you can make a successful ST movie without space battles/explosions/Fire Everything!/planets being destroyed/starships crashing/etc.

Just saying.
I'm not sure a film like that would be a big hit in the current market, much like TMP would flounder in the current market.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:48 PM   #126
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post


Being a movie is not an excuse for being stupid. As a cinephile, that attitude will always irk me.
That wasn't the question. The question had nothing to do with plot, it had to do with tempo and style.

Try Again: Do you expect a TV series with 178 episodes to have the same tempo and style as a two-hour movie?
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:53 PM   #127
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Garrovick wrote: View Post
The Voyage Home, which was released 27 years ago!
Operative words, 27 years ago. It cost ~ $62 million to make Star Trek 10. No one in their right mind would invest even close to that amount of money into a Trek film with little or no action at all.
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:54 PM   #128
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
Try Again: Do you expect a TV series with 178 episodes to have the same tempo and style as a two-hour movie?
Uh.. I guess not? Don't see what this has to do with anything, but there's my answer.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 08:55 PM   #129
Garrovick
Commander
 
Garrovick's Avatar
 
Location: wallowing in a pool of emotion
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
Garrovick wrote: View Post
There's been quite a lot of discussion about the merits of ST09-style battles versus DS9etc.-style battles.

I know this won't happen with Into Darkness, but would it be asking too much for someone to make a good Star Trek movie with no space battles? Just for a change of pace? Imagine a ST movie where absolutely no one dies at all - the last (actually, the only) ST movie that had no deaths at all in it was The Voyage Home, which was released 27 years ago! Not to mention that TVH did quite well at the box office, was well received by fans and the critics for the most part, and brought a lot of people into the theatres who weren't die-hard fans. Not saying I want them to do a remake, but TVH proves that you can make a successful ST movie without space battles/explosions/Fire Everything!/planets being destroyed/starships crashing/etc.

Just saying.
I'm not sure a film like that would be a big hit in the current market, much like TMP would flounder in the current market.
Just out of curiosity, why not? I realize that pop culture has changed quite a bit since 1986, no doubt about that, but I would hope that there's still room out there for a well-written, fast-paced, light-hearted funny movie that has something relevant to say about society without getting preachy about it to do well with the public.

But maybe I'm just getting old.
Garrovick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 09:02 PM   #130
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Garrovick wrote: View Post
still room out there for a well-written, fast-paced, light-hearted funny movie that has something relevant to say about society without getting preachy about it to do well with the public.

But maybe I'm just getting old.
Lincoln is still in theaters right now and it has all of the elements you say you like.

I don't think there is room for sci-fi in the same genre. Then again you can always rent Galaxy Quest, but that was meant to be more of a comedy and a mockery of Trek.
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 09:06 PM   #131
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Garrovick wrote: View Post
... I would hope that there's still room out there for a well-written, fast-paced, light-hearted funny movie that has something relevant to say about society without getting preachy about it to do well with the public.
Not in the part of the market that Paramount is aiming for.

Simply put, the cost of creating that wonderful "futuristic" world that Trek fans are so fond of and doing it plausibly enough to attract and appeal to the millions of non-Trek fans necessary to make it worth the studio's while to release a movie like this requires budgets that push it into the summer blockbuster range - and the kinds of stories that work there are limited. The demand is for spectacle on a scale that can't be appreciated as well in any medium other than on a great big movie screen.

Part of what killed Star Trek at the movies was that the budgetary niche those older films occupied has pretty much disappeared. It's "go big or go home," and Paramount has a lot of other potential big movies they could be spending the money on instead.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 09:06 PM   #132
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
I'm not sure a film like that would be a big hit in the current market, much like TMP would flounder in the current market.
And as yours is the deciding voice, what with you working in a high ranking position in the film industry, that's the end of that discussion.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 09:08 PM   #133
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Sarcasm directed against an observant statement that you don't happen to like certainly doesn't reopen it.

One of many reasons that Serenity failed at the box office was that it was difficult to promote - it wasn't nearly big enough in scale to compete during the spring/summer season. Paradoxically, the fact that it was made for a relatively small amount of money meant that the studio was not going to invest huge amounts of money in promoting it or pushing it out to great numbers of screens during a highly competitive release window (not when they also had much bigger movies to divide up that pie between, movies that represented much larger investments and which therefore would result in much greater losses if they flopped).

Serenity
didn't fall into any other easily marketed category in which it could compete - it wasn't a romantic comedy, a suspense thriller, a children's film, etc. - so the studio released it off-season and relied upon an unconventional, "viral" marketing strategy...another way of saying that they tried to market it on the cheap. If that strategy had succeeded, of course, they'd have been geniuses; it failed, but they weren't out a lot of money.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 09:12 PM   #134
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Part of what killed Star Trek at the movies was that the budgetary niche those older films occupied has pretty much disappeared. It's "go big or go home," and Paramount has a lot of other potential big movies they could be spending the money on instead.
They may also have to cover their losses with a Trek 'knock out of the park,' if the early reviews of World War Z make the film as bad when its released as so many are saying in advance.
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 09:16 PM   #135
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Sarcasm directed against an observant statement that you don't happen to like certainly doesn't reopen it.
We're not actually pitching ideas to high ranking film execs. We're messing about online bouncing ideas around. There is no risk.

Killjoy statements about what studios expect or what the audience cares about or what puts asses in seats serve little purpose other than to piss on others chips.

Or, 'no'.

Whichever you prefer.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.