RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,775
Posts: 5,216,954
Members: 24,216
Currently online: 748
Newest member: momogila

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 5 2013, 07:14 PM   #76
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
The general public don't care about Star Trek, or sci-fi in general, much and that's been the case since the original series was abruptly cancelled before it even finished its 5 year mission. Is TOS crap because it got cancelled?


Science-fiction and fantasy films usually do pretty well at the box office.

Honestly, TOS ran longer than it probably should have based on the time-period in which it was produced. Whether it's the 60's, 80's, 90's or the 21st century, you have to produce material people want to watch. Trek didn't evolve with the rest of the TV/movie business, which is why it fell on its collective ass in the early 21st century.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:14 PM   #77
The Stig
Rear Admiral
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Location: Dunsfold Aerodrome, Surrey
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

I guess it all depends on whether or not you want an action sequence to be immersive and immediate or objective and detached. Do you want to be caught up in the terror facing a small survey ship faced with impossible odds or do you want to be impressed by the tactical maneuvers of the attacking ship? I much prefer something that draws me in to the situation and makes me feel like I'm there, in the moment.
__________________
Some say that he was the first choice to play the new Doctor but turned it down when he couldn't put racing stripes on the TARDIS.

All we know is, he's called The Stig.
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:17 PM   #78
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
Science-fiction and fantasy films usually do pretty well at the box office.
Deep Space Nine is not a movie, it is a television show and sci-fi shows generally don't last long. Networks are scared to commission them over other types of programming. The idea that DS9 failed, even though it ran for 7 seasons is absurd. Though it also comes from the man who thinks that modern Trek was a flop because it only ran for 25 seasons. It seems the only criteria for something not being a failure is if JJ Abrams is involved, at which point it becomes genius.

The Stig wrote: View Post
I guess it all depends on whether or not you want an action sequence to be immersive and immediate or objective and detached. Do you want to be caught up in the terror facing a small survey ship faced with impossible odds or do you want to be impressed by the tactical maneuvers of the attacking ship? I much prefer something that draws me in to the situation and makes me feel like I'm there, in the moment.
I don't have to be spoonfed and can be engaged with something shown from an objective point of view.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:20 PM   #79
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post

Deep Space 9 is not a movie, it is a television show and sci-fi shows generally don't last long. Networks are scared to commission them over other types of programming. The idea that DS9 failed, even though it ran for 7 seasons is absurd. Though it also comes from the man who thinks that modern Trek was a flop because it [i]only/i] ran for 25 seasons.
Who thinks that Modern Trek was a flop?

TV execs are scared to commission sci-fi because it costs more to produce with less expected audience.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:22 PM   #80
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post

The Stig wrote: View Post
I guess it all depends on whether or not you want an action sequence to be immersive and immediate or objective and detached. Do you want to be caught up in the terror facing a small survey ship faced with impossible odds or do you want to be impressed by the tactical maneuvers of the attacking ship? I much prefer something that draws me in to the situation and makes me feel like I'm there, in the moment.
I don't have to be spoonfed and can be engaged with something shown from an objective point of view.
But either can be a good choice.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:24 PM   #81
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
Who thinks that Modern Trek was a flop?
My Name Is Legion has repeatedly expressed the belief that audiences refuse to accept anybody other than Kirk and Spock and brings up the other show's declining viewing figures. Even though TOS was the quickest live-action Trek show to be cancelled and TNG was a genuine pop culture phenomena. It's an argument that is utterly sound, provided you don't think about it and instead focus on JJ Abrams' lush features.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:29 PM   #82
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
It's an argument that is utterly sound, provided you don't think about it and instead focus on JJ Abrams' lush features.
The syndication success of TNG is untested in a 300+ cable channel enviornment.

Other than The Walking Dead, I cannot think of a recent example of a TV show that has knocked the socks off the ratings and paid for itself when sci-fi is so expensive to produce relative to inexpensive and highly popular programming like Dancing with the Stars.

[And BTW, ironically AMC is still cutting the budget for The Walking Dead despite its huge success - go figure]
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:29 PM   #83
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Who thinks that Modern Trek was a flop?
My Name Is Legion has repeatedly expressed the belief that audiences refuse to accept anybody other than Kirk and Spock and brings up the other show's declining viewing figures. Even though TOS was the quickest live-action Trek show to be cancelled and TNG was a genuine pop culture phenomena.
You seem to be confusing his personal opinion of the best way for Trek to go forward with hard numbers.

I tend to agree with him that a reboot with the characters that are pop-culture icons was the best way to move forward and ticket sales seem to agree. The hard numbers say that Trek viewership was in a downward trend from the end of TNG on as were ticket sales for the movies after First Contact. Based on those facts, which way would you go?

And I hate to out Legion but he co-wrote a couple of TNG episodes. For what it's worth...
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:36 PM   #84
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Insurrection was never going to be an easy sell to a mass audience of popcorn munchers regardless of who was captain. It's not really an action film, more of a traditional Star Trek morality play. It was never going to succeed at the box office over "FIRE EVERYTHING!" style frothiness as that's what audiences prefer. Less of that horrible thinking involved, just lots of 'splosions. Om nom.

I think if Star Trek 2009 rebooted the TNG crew (And thank God it didn't as the idea of a shaved Chris Pine playing young "Buckle up!" Picard is giving me the horrors!) it would've done as well, if not better because young people are way more familiar with that crew. I'm the only one my age I know that has even seen TOS.

Abrams' moronic spin in interviews that Star Trek "is all about" Kirk and Spock, or "only works" with Kirk and Spock is not only ignorant but disrespectful to those that kept the franchise going for so long.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:41 PM   #85
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
It was never going to succeed at the box office over "FIRE EVERYTHING!" style frothiness as that's what audiences prefer.
You just pointed out everything that was wrong with Modern Trek at the end. They were making TV/movies for a few die-hards instead of trying to grow the brand and keep it competitive with the changing market.


I think if Star Trek 2009 rebooted the TNG crew (And thank God it didn't as the idea of a shaved Chris Pine playing young "Buckle up!" Picard is giving me the horrors!) it would've done as well, if not better because young people are way more familiar with that crew. I'm the only one my age I know that has even seen TOS.
When I went to see Star Trek 2009 on May 7th, 2009 at 7pm, the college age kids outnumbered us older folk 2-to-1.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:41 PM   #86
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post

The Stig wrote: View Post
I guess it all depends on whether or not you want an action sequence to be immersive and immediate or objective and detached. Do you want to be caught up in the terror facing a small survey ship faced with impossible odds or do you want to be impressed by the tactical maneuvers of the attacking ship? I much prefer something that draws me in to the situation and makes me feel like I'm there, in the moment.
I don't have to be spoonfed and can be engaged with something shown from an objective point of view.
But either can be a good choice.
Honestly, I'd really prefer a space battle with aspects of both.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:45 PM   #87
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
You just pointed out everything that was wrong with Modern Trek at the end. They were making TV/movies for a few die-hards instead of trying to grow the brand and keep it competitive with the changing market.
Well, that's where we'll always differ. I don't think Star Trek should be aimed at the widest possible audience of the general public. Most people won't like or understand Star Trek without it being vastly changed in to being dumber and less imaginative.

No, I'm fine with it being aimed at a cult audience but being of higher quality, than aiming to please everybody and transforming itself so it doesn't really resemble the thing I liked to begin with.

As I said before, DS9 is my favourite Trek. All the hardcore Abrams fans in this thread seem to hate it, but that makes perfect sense to me as DS9 was a show that did not make an effort to aim itself at a wide audience of non-sci-fi fans. It is the complete antithesis to Abrams' approach to sci-fi (Which he doesn't even view as sci-fi, but action/adventure that just happens to involve spaceships and aliens!).
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:50 PM   #88
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
You just pointed out everything that was wrong with Modern Trek at the end. They were making TV/movies for a few die-hards instead of trying to grow the brand and keep it competitive with the changing market.
The final episode of Star Trek Enterprise These are the Voyages illustrates what your saying above in spades. And they even got making the TV show for the die-hards wrong on that episode.
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:50 PM   #89
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post

No, I'm fine with it being aimed at a cult audience but being of higher quality, than aiming to please everybody and transforming itself so it doesn't really resemble the thing I liked to begin with.
I just don't understand how you can claim to know so much about TV/film and yet make a claim like the one above? CBS/Paramount doesn't make Trek out of the goodness of its heart, they're in it to make money.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5 2013, 07:53 PM   #90
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

anh165 wrote: View Post
The point of the original post was the dull insipid fish tank of a 'battle scene' in first contact (which is not disimilar to any other battle scene in DS9 or Voyager) would not work in modern high budget movie.
Uh, that wasn't the point at all.

The point was one about clarity and understanding of the visuals, not about storytelling, dialog, effects, etc.
Ryan8bit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.