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Old January 22 2013, 07:12 PM   #1
hux
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The weakness of season 3

So Voyager lost it's way in season three and just threw a load of very average or downright awful episodes at us and quite understandably brought Seven in to save the day...with each viewing, i realise more and more just how poor it is.....what are people's opinions of some of the rubbish that we're given in season 3

Flashback
(An attempt to pull in hardcore Trekkers with some Sulu nonsense and a memory engram) - Not terrible

The Chute (The worlds most boring prison makes Tom and Kim become angry until everyone gets bored)

The Swarm (space bees bother the crew and the Doctor goes funny but B'lanna fixes him with a replacement that can never be copied *cough* living witness *cough*)

False Prophets (Ferenghi...snore....Quark i can live with but the Ferenghi in general bore me)

Remember (memories of hot sex with aliens.....bored now)

Sacred Ground (God exists and turns out to be 3 annoying people because science doesn't have all the aswers so if you're religious, it's ok to watch Star trek)

Futures End (Starling knows how to do things that future people can't even comprehend.....makes doctor mobile....space/time police are not pleased with events and won't send Voyager home but feel bad about it so let the doctor keep his future emmitter)

Warlord (Writers realise that Kes character is going nowhere so we'll let her have some fun before she leaves.....and put her in a cat suit....hmmm....doesn't look good, maybe a different actress would look hotter)

The Q and the Grey (eh? what?....Q war....oh all right then....have a baby because clicking fingers to make one is time consuming)

Macrocosm (little things get big and attack!.....Janeway fannies about a bit)

Fair Trade (Neelix is boring and his friend Wixiban is more interesting but hey it's too late to swap now)

Alter Ego (disturbed and insane woman plays with the crew....and even though she's insane, she still smart enough to find Kim too boring and focuses on Tuvok instead cos he's got logic balls and such)

Coda (what....is a time loop...is it a dream....no, it's dad and he wants you to come into his matrix and nourish him but Janeway tells him to go back to hell)

Blood Fever (when you've got pon farr, logically, you either have sex or have AN EPIC BATTLE TO THE DEATH.....cos nothing cures a desease like a punch up....maybe we should have Vorik take this one cos it's already getting a bit silly......hey but there's a dead Borg so things might be getting good soon)

Unity (Snorefest....but again lets highlight the Borg angle cos it's where we're going for the finale)

Darkling (Doctor goes weird and Kes meets a boring man.....Doctor quite rightly tries to kill boring man cos Lord Byron was a horny sod or something)

Rise (An episode dedicated to showing us that Tuvok finds Neelix annoying.....who the fuck doesn't.....oh and a massive space lift)

Favourite Son (Hot lady planet wants to eat Harry's brain or something cos there's not enough men on the hot lady planet so they trick men into coming to the hot lady planet with sweets and glitter.....20 minutes into the episode, Harry Kim happily accepts that his mother was a fake and his former life was meaningless)

Before and After (kes tries to travel backward in time to avoid ever meeting Neelix....Kim impregnates Tom's daughter with a small annoying boy....Kes says, hey, it's not just the Borg coming up next season but also the Krenim with their timey whimey technology)

Real Life (Kenneth creates a family but then B'Lanna changes it and makes Kenneths son a massive tool and his daughter die horribly because that's more realistic, Kenneth is upset and tells Tom....Tom says, i'm so sorry with a straight face even though it's all make believe....Kenneth goes back to doctoring)

Distant Origin (Dinosaurs left earth and now swan about in massive ships) - Not terrible

Displaced (Voyager plays musical chairs with Nyrians (humans wearing hats) and then fixes it all which is something Jarlath and his people couldn't manage in over nine years)

Worst Case Scenario (Tuvok programmes the Maquis to be what they should have been from the start and reminds us that Seska was the best Voyager baddie and they probably shouldn't have killed her off) - Not terrible

Scorpion (finally a woman that can make a catsuit look good....Janeway becomes erratic and contradictory) - Not terrible

Most of the episodes are forgettable and weak with only a handful of half decent episodes - and Scorpion was, for me, the first time i really disliked Janeway (not something you should generally want your audience to do) helping the Borg to destroy another race because we want to go home is fine (unless it's the Ocompa of course) they try to tell a story about individuality by bringing Janeway and Chakotay into conflict but all they achieved was actually making Janeway appear utterly erratic....even after Chakotay explains that the Borg attacked species 8472 first and tried to infiltrate their fluidic space.....Janeway still thinks her plan to help the Borg wipe them out is ya know, completely fine

but on the up side, here comes a woman that can really work that catsuit
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Last edited by hux; January 22 2013 at 07:37 PM.
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Old January 22 2013, 10:15 PM   #2
T'Girl
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Re: The weakness of season 3

hux wrote: View Post
Warlord
The episode the proved that if there were any problems with the character of Kes, they didn't come from Jennifer Lien's acting ability. She absolutely shines in this episode.

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Old January 22 2013, 10:32 PM   #3
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The weakness of season 3

Funny, I really enjoyed season 3 and most of the episodes you didn't
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Old January 22 2013, 10:43 PM   #4
billcosby
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Re: The weakness of season 3

You were far too kind about Flashback - the most squandered, poorly executed use of a special guest star and radical budget (Excelsior bridge, etc) in Star Trek.... ever! The premise is just waaaaay to much of a stretch. There's no way in my wildest imagination could I buy it for a second. It all happens inside Tuvok's head... just utter garbage. And that fucking stupid ending with all the kids falling off the cliff.... gawd.

Other than that, I kind of enjoy the weirdness that is VOY season 3. Before and After, Worst Case Scenario, Future's End and Real Life stand out for me as some of Voyager's best (most entertaining).
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Old January 22 2013, 11:34 PM   #5
teacake
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Re: The weakness of season 3

I agree about the cliffs, feels like a cheap jerk around of the emotions that doesn't actually work. But I did enjoy the Excelsior scenes, not sure why people think it a waste. Sure it would be great to have MORE, a two parter, real time travel, heck lets just make a VOY movie that takes place on the Excelsior! But what we got was fun too.

And Janeway looked great in the uniform.

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Old January 23 2013, 01:49 AM   #6
JirinPanthosa
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Re: The weakness of season 3

I agree season 3 is a terrible season. They were clearly out of ideas, that's why they needed a gimmick character so badly, so they wouldn't need to come up with good ideas.

Let's see, episodes...

Egrediously bad:
Flashback, False Profits, The Q and the Grey, Alter Ego, Coda, Blood Fever, Darkling, Favorite Son, Distant Origin

Mediocre/Forgettable:
The Swarm, Remember, Sacred Ground, Warlord, Macrocosm, Fair Trade, Unity, Rise, Real Life, Displaced

Episodes I might actually be interested in seeing again:
Basics, The Chute, Future's End, Before and After, Worst Case Scenario, Scorpion

Very, very weak season. Maybe the worst 24th century season.
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Old January 23 2013, 02:36 PM   #7
Mareika
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Re: The weakness of season 3

I can`t agree about season 3 being a terrible season.

I like it a lot. I think there are many good episodes in it.

Episodes I like are
The Chute (Tom and Harry are great in it and I think it`s an interesting story)
Remember
(interesting Torres episode)
Futures End (I like episodes with the crew being out of uniforms and I think it`s a funny episode; and of course Robinson is in it)
Coda (J/C - what else can I say)
Unity (one of my fav Chakotay episodes
Real Life (touching Doc episode)
Distant Origin (great Chaokotay episode)
Worst Case Scenario (interesting Seska/Chakotay plot, too bad they killed Seska)
Scorpion absolutely great, but

the first time i really disliked Janeway (not something you should generally want your audience to do) helping the Borg to destroy another race because we want to go home is fine (unless it's the Ocompa of course) they try to tell a story about individuality by bringing Janeway and Chakotay into conflict but all they achieved was actually making Janeway appear utterly erratic....even after Chakotay explains that the Borg attacked species 8472 first and tried to infiltrate their fluidic space.....Janeway still thinks her plan to help the Borg wipe them out is ya know, completely fine
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. I always had the same feelings when I watched Scorpion.
I didn`t understand that fans were able to agree with Janeway. They believed Chakotay couldn`t trust her. They believed that he was wrong.

Last edited by Mareika; January 23 2013 at 02:37 PM. Reason: error
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Old January 23 2013, 06:01 PM   #8
hux
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Re: The weakness of season 3

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The episode the proved that if there were any problems with the character of Kes, they didn't come from Jennifer Lien's acting ability. She absolutely shines in this episode.
she was always good but they clearly didn't know what to do with her

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Funny, I really enjoyed season 3 and most of the episodes you didn't
isn't it regarded by many fans as the weakest though...there's definitely more episodes in three that i can happily skip though than any other season

billcosby wrote: View Post
You were far too kind about Flashback - the most squandered, poorly executed use of a special guest star and radical budget (Excelsior bridge, etc) in Star Trek.... ever! The premise is just waaaaay to much of a stretch. There's no way in my wildest imagination could I buy it for a second. It all happens inside Tuvok's head... just utter garbage. And that fucking stupid ending with all the kids falling off the cliff.... gawd..
Well, yeah, it's Trek porn really and that makes it easier to watch in some ways but that's only when compared to other season three episodes which are very weak (real time travel would have made it vastly superior) - on paper, Futures end should be brilliant but, i don't know, each time i watch it, i just feel a little bit underwhelmed

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Egrediously bad:
Flashback, False Profits, The Q and the Grey, Alter Ego, Coda, Blood Fever, Darkling, Favorite Son, Distant Origin

Mediocre/Forgettable:
The Swarm, Remember, Sacred Ground, Warlord, Macrocosm, Fair Trade, Unity, Rise, Real Life, Displaced

Episodes I might actually be interested in seeing again:
Basics, The Chute, Future's End, Before and After, Worst Case Scenario, Scorpion
you didn't like distant origin - i have to admit, it's not as good as others seem to think but at least it tries.....some of the episodes in season three just seem like the writers could not be bothered (and i would class "basics" as being part of the completely superior season 2 so you can't have that one )

Mareika wrote: View Post
I can`t agree about season 3 being a terrible season
maybe not terrible but definitely the weakest i'd say

Mareika wrote: View Post
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. I always had the same feelings when I watched Scorpion.
I didn`t understand that fans were able to agree with Janeway. They believed Chakotay couldn`t trust her. They believed that he was wrong.
This episodes awful sub plot about individuality (as seen through their conflict) was a very poor decision for the writers because they just got it all wrong - not only did it make Janeway look pyschotic but it also made it clear that Chakotay's balls were in Janeway's hand bag and no matter how ridiculous she might be in her decision making, he would never truly challenge her - spolied both characters a little
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Old January 23 2013, 11:48 PM   #9
BillJ
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Re: The weakness of season 3

T'Girl wrote: View Post
hux wrote: View Post
Warlord
The episode the proved that if there were any problems with the character of Kes, they didn't come from Jennifer Lien's acting ability. She absolutely shines in this episode.

Agreed.
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Old February 2 2013, 01:32 PM   #10
You_Will_Fail
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Re: The weakness of season 3

I think even the writers/producers/studio heads realized they were churning out half written, lazy garbage. The season reached a despicable low point with "Favorite Son" before the quality of the writing spiked dramatically starting with "Before and After" although that isn't to say there weren't good episodes before those last few of season 3. "Unity" was actually pretty great.

Also wasn't it weird how VOY season 3 somehow feels more old-fashioned than season 1 and 2? I think it was something to do with all the rubbish that seemed like they were from TNG reject scripts (Warlord, Favorite Son, Rise etc).
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Old February 2 2013, 09:00 PM   #11
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Re: The weakness of season 3

hux wrote: View Post
The Chute (The worlds most boring prison makes Tom and Kim become angry until everyone gets bored)
I thought the artificially induced madness affecting everyone was a bit contrived. But it's a good story for Harry, and Garrett Wang puts everything he's got into it, finally getting a chance to be a tough macho action hero instead of standing around announcing sensor readings.

Darkling (Doctor goes weird and Kes meets a boring man.....Doctor quite rightly tries to kill boring man cos Lord Byron was a horny sod or something)
Saved only by Robert Picardo's ability to make absurdity fun to watch.
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Old February 2 2013, 09:20 PM   #12
MacLeod
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Re: The weakness of season 3

billcosby wrote: View Post
You were far too kind about Flashback - the most squandered, poorly executed use of a special guest star and radical budget (Excelsior bridge, etc) in Star Trek.... ever! The premise is just waaaaay to much of a stretch. There's no way in my wildest imagination could I buy it for a second. It all happens inside Tuvok's head... just utter garbage. And that fucking stupid ending with all the kids falling off the cliff.... gawd.
It's just as well it takes place in Tuvok's head, it can explain the continuity gaffes as being inocrrect memorys.

1.>Dimitri Valtane is quite clearly alive at the end of TUC
2.>It was a period of several months between the Praxis explosion and Kirk and McCoy's arrest.
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Old February 3 2013, 01:28 AM   #13
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Re: The weakness of season 3

Season 3 wasn't a bad season, it just seems to have been filled with a lot more average to slightly subpar episodes. The Trilogy of Terror as it was known wasn't so bad to watch the first time. It seems like Voyager hate that let it be named yet the spring 1998 block of DS9 was left unnamed (His Way, Valiant, The Reckoning, Profit and Lace, Time's Orphan) or that stretch that was so dull/crappy in Enterprise Season 2, it drove away part of the audience (the stretch starting with "A Night at Sickbay" and ending before "The Catwalk").

I just watched "Flashback" last night. Tuvok's terrified eyes and the "Don't let me fall Tuvok! NOOOOO!!!!" were quite cheesy. It is better to be cheesy and humorously bad than to be just plain bad. The rest of the episode was decent. I guess with the plotholes, Sulu should have given the order- "Helmsman. Plot a course through that plothole at one quarter impulse".
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Old February 5 2013, 08:42 AM   #14
exodus
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Re: The weakness of season 3

Yes, there are parts of s3 that are a little wanting but nowhere near as bad as s7.
The writing staff were so out of ideas by s7, they took many of the characters out of character, just to create a story. Repression, Lineage, Repentance, Prophecy, the Void, Friendship One, Natural Law & Renaissance Man dont even make any sense there so bad and the characters are so out of their personality profiles. Which is sad cause s7 would have been the perfect chance to work out the other characters they had neglected the the 3 seasons prior. I don't understand why they didnt do some type of story to wrap up the fate of the Maquis members instead of leaving
so open ended or reintroduce the Vadwaar as that
season villains.

I think I get more enjoyment watching Sarah Silverman(before she fucked Matt Damon. LOL!), Suzie Plakston calling Janeway a dog or Ethan Philips playing Neelix as a Ferengi than the majority of eps on s7.

Mareika wrote: View Post

the first time i really disliked Janeway (not something you should generally want your audience to do) helping the Borg to destroy another race because we want to go home is fine (unless it's the Ocompa of course) they try to tell a story about individuality by bringing Janeway and Chakotay into conflict but all they achieved was actually making Janeway appear utterly erratic....even after Chakotay explains that the Borg attacked species 8472 first and tried to infiltrate their fluidic space.....Janeway still thinks her plan to help the Borg wipe them out is ya know, completely fine
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. I always had the same feelings when I watched Scorpion.
I didn`t understand that fans were able to agree with Janeway. They believed Chakotay couldn`t trust her. They believed that he was wrong.
He was wrong.
Species 8472 declared war on ALL of us. Once they defeated the Borg, they were going to rid our galaxy of all life. Garak & Sisko covered this in DS9, there is no compassion for an enemy in war. It's either you or them because they will not show compassion for you.
By Chakotay ending the deal with the Borg and after Species 8472 killed them off, guess who they'd be coming after next? His actions would have caused mass genocide in our galaxy. The Kazon didn't declare war on anybody, they just wanted water from the Ocampa and technology from us. They were a threat to nobody else beyond that. All they wanted was to kill other Kazon. They were too dumb to see beyond that or understand what type of technology they had.

Janeway's plan was smart, you make allies in war and prove you aren't weak. How could Chakotay be a Maquis leader an Starfleet trained and not know this basic strategy? Janeway didn't have Chakotays balls, cause he didn't have any or brains. It's probably why she never put his dumb ass in charge.
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