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Old February 4 2013, 05:16 PM   #31
lurok
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Oh. I thought this was that one. No wonder was getting déjà vu.

We obviously need some new ENT topics.
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Old February 4 2013, 05:19 PM   #32
Timo
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

So Future Guy must be lying because it doesn't fit your opinion of what happened?
Well, Future Guy must be lying because he always is.

Although what he said or did never made any sense anyway. He never stayed consistently on anybody's side, and his helping or hindering Archer balanced out rather exactly... But perhaps he was simply a pathological liar?

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Old February 4 2013, 05:19 PM   #33
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

lurok wrote: View Post
We obviously need some new ENT topics.
Well, the only new ENT content we've got is in the novels. My novel Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures will be coming out in just under 5 months, so there will be new stuff to talk about then.
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Old February 4 2013, 05:28 PM   #34
MarsSpectre
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Timo wrote: View Post
Well, Future Guy must be lying because he always is.

Although what he said or did never made any sense anyway. He never stayed consistently on anybody's side, and his helping or hindering Archer balanced out rather exactly... But perhaps he was simply a pathological liar?
What's funny about that is according to Brannon Braga, if there had been a season 5 of Enterprise, Future Guy was going to be revealed as Archer himself.

Of course, he may have been joking but it would have been interesting to see how that played out.

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Old February 4 2013, 05:38 PM   #35
F. King Daniel
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

MarsWeeps wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Well, Future Guy must be lying because he always is.

Although what he said or did never made any sense anyway. He never stayed consistently on anybody's side, and his helping or hindering Archer balanced out rather exactly... But perhaps he was simply a pathological liar?
What's funny about that is according to Brannon Braga, if there had been a season 5 of Enterprise, Future Guy was going to be revealed as Archer himself.

Of course, he may have been joking but it would have been interesting to see how that played out.

Archer being Future Guy would make about as much sense as a WWE wrestling story line.
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Old February 4 2013, 05:41 PM   #36
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Archer being Future Guy would make about as much sense as a WWE wrestling story line.
Which fits perfectly with the whole Xindi arc.
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Old February 4 2013, 06:17 PM   #37
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

MarsWeeps wrote: View Post
I just finished re-watching season 3 of Enterprise. Back when it was on the air, I never really cared for the whole Xindi arc. While watching it again, I realized that it never really made any sense for the Xindi to send the first mini-weapon that killed 7 million people.

What was the point? Why tip off earth that there was a race out there that was planning on destroying the planet? The Xindi could have tested it somewhere else without anyone knowing and when they had the real planet killer weapon ready, they could have destroyed the earth in one shot.

Yeah, I know the writers had to somehow set up the whole story but it's just one of those things that makes me shake my head.
Who knows how aliens think?
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Old February 4 2013, 06:20 PM   #38
Dale Sams
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

King Daniel wrote: View Post
MarsWeeps wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Well, Future Guy must be lying because he always is.

Although what he said or did never made any sense anyway. He never stayed consistently on anybody's side, and his helping or hindering Archer balanced out rather exactly... But perhaps he was simply a pathological liar?
What's funny about that is according to Brannon Braga, if there had been a season 5 of Enterprise, Future Guy was going to be revealed as Archer himself.

Of course, he may have been joking but it would have been interesting to see how that played out.

Archer being Future Guy would make about as much sense as a WWE wrestling story line.
My reasoning was:

1) Saved The Enterprise a couple of times. (And yes seemed to get pissed off a couple of times enough to not care if Archer died)

2) And at some point, I thought Archer got trapped in the future and that maybe it was a version of Archer that made it back.
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Old February 4 2013, 07:10 PM   #39
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Who knows how aliens think?
Umm... they do?
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Old February 4 2013, 07:13 PM   #40
Dukhat
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Who knows how aliens think?
While I understand your point about applying human motives and thought processes to an alien race, the fact is that it's a fictional alien race, and in Star Trek, nine times out of ten an alien is going to think and act the exact same way as a human would.

As for the OP, no, there was no good reason whatsoever for testing the prototype on Earth, unless that place in Florida happened to be the only place on Earth where weapons/ships/other tech, etc. was produced that would have a chance of stopping the main probe later. Obviously that wasn't the case.
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Old February 4 2013, 07:16 PM   #41
stj
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Timo wrote: View Post
Yup, sounds like Archer swallowed Future Guy's lies hook, line and sinker... While the Xindi had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

The device was probing the path to Earth.
Sounds like a good idea. But this should and could have been done covertly, without firing a superweapon at Earth!

The device was probing possible resistance.
The above goes doubly for this. If there is resistance, surely it shouldn't be allowed to witness the Xindi death ray in action! Probing should be conducted so that only the Xindi benefit from it, not the enemy...

Timo Saloniemi
Detection is much easier than defense. It is unlikely that any probe could have operated covertly. If testing the ability to reach through the Expanse to Earth was the sole objective, the probe shouldn't have been armed at all, or even manned and should have self-destructed out in the Oort cloud. Any Xindi attack would still need intelligence on the Earth defenses.

Read literally, the posts above call for covert testing of Earth defenses! That is impossible. A major attack evolking all Earth's defenses was needed.

It is true that the attack gave away information. But what the Xindi gave away was not essential to the Earth defense (that came from Future Guy) while what the Xindi gained was essential to their preemptive (as they believed) attack. A tradeoff in intelligence was inevitable and the Xindi would have won the exchange without Future Guy.
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Old February 4 2013, 07:21 PM   #42
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Dukhat wrote: View Post
While I understand your point about applying human motives and thought processes to an alien race, the fact is that it's a fictional alien race, and in Star Trek, nine times out of ten an alien is going to think and act the exact same way as a human would.
Yup -- and humans often make very bad decisions.
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Old February 4 2013, 07:34 PM   #43
Amasov
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Because there wouldn't have been a season three without it.
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Old February 4 2013, 07:37 PM   #44
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

Christopher wrote: View Post
And Ferengi is from the Turkish and Arabic (or maybe Persian?) words for a European (derived from "Frank," i.e. a French person).
I missed that one. I discovered jemadar while searching Roget's Thesaurus when trying to invent ranks for an alien race.
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Old February 4 2013, 07:41 PM   #45
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Re: First Xindi attack made no sense

I agree. The advance warning attack makes absolutely no sense.

I would have Daniels warn Archer of the Xindi plan. Daniels wasn't a member of his crew, and Archer isn't at liberty to tell SF about him. Besides they won't believe him.

Archer tells his officers about Daniels. He "steals" Enterprise. The crew is told they have a new assignment. The Klingons are still after Archer, slowing him down thus giving Columbia a chance to catch up with Enterprise. A team of MACOs is on board to ensure the NX-01 surrenders without incident.

When the Columbia catches up with Enterprise, the MACOs transport aboard the NX-01 immediately. Archer persuades Erica to help him get away. She knows him well enough to realize that he hasn't gone off his rocker. The MACOs think she's is aiding and abetting a rogue captain. They refuse to return to Columbia.

The MACOS become a big problem for the crew who trust Archer. Eventually Major Hayes realizes they've been on the wrong side.

The mission goes as originally written with these exceptions:

NO:

Extinction
Rajiin
Exile
North Star
Carpenter Street
Doctor's Orders
Hatchery
E2
Not one of these episodes contributed substantively to the season.
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