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Old February 4 2013, 12:51 PM   #46
Dix
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

tmosler wrote: View Post
I remember reading a little bit ago that Ronald D. Moore was thinking about making a new star trek tv show. So my question is has anyone heard any updates on this?
Yes, he did talk about it.

Here's the link to the interview:
http://www.treknews.net/2012/09/30/r...rek-tv-series/

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
He wasn't so there isn't.
Well, that's a lie. (check the link above)
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Old February 4 2013, 03:15 PM   #47
137th Gebirg
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post

I thought the point of the Japanese robots wasn't to be spooky, but rather to show that man has avoided it's predecessors mistakes. The first Cylons were soldiers...."we" make toys.

I don't understand your polythiestic comment. The ancient BSG humans were polythiestic. The newer civilization (the Cylons) were monothiestic.

Weren't some humans in nuBSG monothestic?

And you could just as easily say that the coda at the end of nuBSG, was raising the question that we could be on the same course as before That the cycle could repeat itself.
I don't *recall* seeing any monothiestic humans (which doesn't mean there wern't any, i may just not be remembering them) They seemed to either worship The Lords of Kobol..or be your standard "Stay in bed Christians"
IIRC, Baltar's followers were all monotheistic, even going so far as using the infinity symbol at one point (painted on the wall in his "church"?) that was a clear reference to the one-God cult on Caprica. He had acquired quite a large group towards the end. Some of that influence would likely have filtered down through the ages.
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Old February 4 2013, 06:13 PM   #48
Dale Sams
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post


Weren't some humans in nuBSG monothestic?

And you could just as easily say that the coda at the end of nuBSG, was raising the question that we could be on the same course as before That the cycle could repeat itself.
I don't *recall* seeing any monothiestic humans (which doesn't mean there wern't any, i may just not be remembering them) They seemed to either worship The Lords of Kobol..or be your standard "Stay in bed Christians"
IIRC, Baltar's followers were all monotheistic, even going so far as using the infinity symbol at one point (painted on the wall in his "church"?) that was a clear reference to the one-God cult on Caprica. He had acquired quite a large group towards the end. Some of that influence would likely have filtered down through the ages.
I thought that was more of a Cult of Baltar (and Jesus allegory with the long hair and the women being some kind of Mary-Mary thing) But that was just me, there was a whole lot to try and absorb towards the end there.
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Old February 4 2013, 06:20 PM   #49
137th Gebirg
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

^^^ Heh - yes, it was largely a Cult of Baltar, as you say, but by that time he was starting to have some epiphanies of his own about the One True God, thanks largely to Head Six and her ability to manipulate cause and effect to lead him in to believing he was a pure instrument of God teaching His Word. That was the cool thing about his "fireside chats" - you never really knew if he was genuinely pious or if he was still being driven by historical narcissistic bent. Whatever he believed, though, his followers had definitely drank the Koolaide.

I think once they found Earth 2, though, he seemed to have been genuinely humbled by the whole experience.
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Old February 4 2013, 06:41 PM   #50
Nagisa Furukawa
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

Even though I am an atheist, what I'm about to say is purely from a dramatic, storytelling perspective.

Religious stuff is interesting when both sides have leverage and points to make, when certain things definitely occur but WHY they occur and how you can put a spin on it religiously are up for debate. DS9 (the Bajoran religious POV vs. the Federation's atheistic one) does this well as does A Song of Ice and Fire (you've got R'hllor, Old Gods, the Seven, Many-Faced God; or are there just elemental ice and fire magic that humans attribute personalities to?). Is it religion? Or science? Who's right? These questions are raised and moments are made in favor and against, but they're ultimately left as a neutral area, allowing us to make our own decisions.

BSG's religious stuff got dull when God definitely 100% existed and could affect the plot. It just kills interest in the story stone dead. Early S1, you have polytheistic humans, monotheistic robots and a guy talking to a girl in his head who may or may not be real. Again, this is interesting. But it stops being interesting when the narrative takes us aside to whisper, "P.S. The Cylons are the right ones," and then are given a giant question mark plot device that can do anything and everything at RDM's convenience. If a weird plot hole develops between S2-S4? Err, God did it. BSG was an excellent show for much of its run (especially the early years) and there are many reasons for that, but I'd use it as a prime example as how NOT to use religion in a show. It sucks all the fun out of it and leaves it a giant plot vacuum.
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Old February 4 2013, 06:54 PM   #51
137th Gebirg
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

I, too, feel blaming it all on God was a bit of a cop-out in the end. Had they taken the TOS path and included an extra layer of "enlightened beings", like the Ship of Lights and Count Iblis as being the chess-masters of the universe and the Head characters as their heralds, they still would have gotten a similar bang for their spiritual buck without going completely down the Deus ex Mahchina rabbit hole and employ the untenable God concept as a quick fix for all the world's problems.

I still think, to this day, that Babylon Five did the best job of addressing spiritual belief with respect. Don't think any other show has come close - maybe DS9, but distantly.
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Old February 4 2013, 07:03 PM   #52
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

DS9 did it fine. The Prophets are wormhole aliens that have access to a wormhole and view time outside of linear form. It was the way BSG flat out drew a distinction between science and God magic that alienated me.
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Old February 4 2013, 10:18 PM   #53
Dale Sams
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

DalekJim wrote: View Post
DS9 did it fine. The Prophets are wormhole aliens that have access to a wormhole and view time outside of linear form. It was the way BSG flat out drew a distinction between science and God magic that alienated me.
I understand. But personally, especially in today's climate, I thought that was an extremely bold choice to make. Also, the original dallied with that too, so there is that.
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Old February 4 2013, 10:26 PM   #54
Dale Sams
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
Even though I am an atheist, what I'm about to say is purely from a dramatic, storytelling perspective.

Religious stuff is interesting when both sides have leverage and points to make, when certain things definitely occur but WHY they occur and how you can put a spin on it religiously are up for debate. DS9 (the Bajoran religious POV vs. the Federation's atheistic one) does this well as does A Song of Ice and Fire (you've got R'hllor, Old Gods, the Seven, Many-Faced God; or are there just elemental ice and fire magic that humans attribute personalities to?). Is it religion? Or science? Who's right? These questions are raised and moments are made in favor and against, but they're ultimately left as a neutral area, allowing us to make our own decisions.

BSG's religious stuff got dull when God definitely 100% existed and could affect the plot. It just kills interest in the story stone dead. Early S1, you have polytheistic humans, monotheistic robots and a guy talking to a girl in his head who may or may not be real. Again, this is interesting. But it stops being interesting when the narrative takes us aside to whisper, "P.S. The Cylons are the right ones," and then are given a giant question mark plot device that can do anything and everything at RDM's convenience. If a weird plot hole develops between S2-S4? Err, God did it. BSG was an excellent show for much of its run (especially the early years) and there are many reasons for that, but I'd use it as a prime example as how NOT to use religion in a show. It sucks all the fun out of it and leaves it a giant plot vacuum.
Off the top of my head God directly:

Created the 'Head Angels'
Brought back Starbuck
Created a brand new viper
I guess we can say He planted Starbuck's body on Earth 1, since that seems more likely than saying a wormhole or something.

I'm seperating "Along the Watchtower", cause I don't know if it's God's Voice, or the background music of the universe...something like that. I understand using the notes rotated 90 degrees as coordinates hurts to look too closely at, but I can give it a pass as effect.

What plot holes do you think "God did it" was used to fill?
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Old February 4 2013, 10:31 PM   #55
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

MacLeod wrote: View Post
And you could just as easily say that the coda at the end of nuBSG, was raising the question that we could be on the same course as before That the cycle could repeat itself.
IIRC, Edward James Olmos believes that nuBSG is set in the same universe as Blade Runner. So if that's true, the cycle does sort of do that.
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Old February 4 2013, 10:37 PM   #56
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

^^^ Yep - I think I remember talk that he wanted to pitch either a new mini-series or comic book or some kind of vehicle to tie the two worlds together. And, of course, he wanted to have Gav as a descendant of William Adama.
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Old February 4 2013, 10:48 PM   #57
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

I'm in favor of RDM making a new Star Trek series so long as he's not allowed to do any Klingon stories.

I think between NuBSG and DS9, I'd put the first two seasons + New Caprica arc slightly above DS9 and DS9 far above anything after the New Caprica arc.

There weren't many monotheistic humans in BSG but there were lots of them in the godawful Caprica series, where they were just some random cult that liked blowing things up for no particularly well explained reason.

Though I do think RDM would benefit from having a partner who can focus his great ideas in a slightly more accessible manner (IOW, he would need a McCartney to his Lennon).
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Old February 5 2013, 04:25 AM   #58
Nagisa Furukawa
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Had they taken the TOS path and included an extra layer of "enlightened beings", like the Ship of Lights and Count Iblis as being the chess-masters of the universe and the Head characters as their heralds, they still would have gotten a similar bang for their spiritual buck without going completely down the Deus ex Mahchina rabbit hole and employ the untenable God concept as a quick fix for all the world's problems.
I thought this might happen too. Wouldn't be my first choice, but I would certainly take it over the finished product.

I still think, to this day, that Babylon Five did the best job of addressing spiritual belief with respect. Don't think any other show has come close - maybe DS9, but distantly.
It was all right; JMS can be a little samey sometimes so lots of people saying, "I dunno, I'd like to, I was raised Jewish/Protestant/Foundationist," and the like. The best B5 religion thing is how Neroon screams, "But my heaaarrrtt is REEELLLLLLIGGGGIIIIIOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUSSSSSS!" Pretty good character overall; totally embarrassing moment.

DalekJim wrote: View Post
DS9 did it fine. The Prophets are wormhole aliens that have access to a wormhole and view time outside of linear form. It was the way BSG flat out drew a distinction between science and God magic that alienated me.
Yeah, the difference between how DS9 did it and BSG is huge. DS9 gave us a phenomneon and then showed how different people interpret it. BSG gave us disjointed plots and then "explained" Point A to Point B was because God willed it. Gimme a break.

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Brought back Starbuck
They totally used God-the-character as a cop-out for this clusterfuck of a plotline. Starbuck's death, resurrection, status angel who isn't Starbuck who's body is over there but is Starbuck cause she remembers the piano, and all that bullshit was a joke. It took what was a really good character circa S1-2 and turned her into a plot question mark (who is this Starbuck?! never explained really, was it actually Starbuck's consciousness or some kind of "angel" who believed it was Starbuck)/plot deus ex machina (how can remembering some random note sequence you wrote as a child help you find FTL coordinates to an identical world; err, God did it!).
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Old February 5 2013, 04:39 AM   #59
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Because he likes Trek ?
Still?
Yes. Still.

Jesus.
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Old February 5 2013, 04:47 AM   #60
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Re: Ronald D. Moore make new star trek tv show

Actually I think that "what if we had irrefutable proof that God exists" is a valid and interesting story element.
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