We haven't had a conversation about tipping in awhile

[Tora Ziyal]

Seems to me that both people are at fault. The pastor's note was obviously outrageous, but it was also inappropriate to post the receipt with her signature showing.

[Locutus of Bored]

Kestra wrote:

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No, you have good points. I'm pretty damn weak and I don't need anyone to push a revolving door for me, but I have known people who awkwardly jump in the same compartment with me (behind me) so I like people to go first in general. I don't worry too much about the skirt on stairs/elevator thing. I think the last time that was a concern was when I was in high school and we had to wear our tennis skirts all day on game days. Tennis skirts are just ridiculously short. The skirts I wear aren't so short that anyone would be looking up them I hope.

I do really hate scooting across a seat when I'm in a dress or skirt though.

Yeah. My main issue with that list was that while the actions themselves can be polite depending on the circumstances, the original reasoning behind them are kind of outdated and sexist (women are weak, women's virtue needs to be protected, etc.) and in a couple of cases should be something you do for both men and women and not women exclusively.

Edited to add that when RM resurrected this thread, I was going to threaten to resurrect his Treatment of Women thread. But I thought of you and didn't want to send you into a panic attack or something, even with a joke!

As soon as I saw his post a had a reaction gif on deck and ready to go just in case.

Tora Ziyal wrote:

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Seems to me that both people are at fault. The pastor's note was obviously outrageous, but it was also inappropriate to post the receipt with her signature showing.

Agreed. I sympathize with the waitresses' disgust at the way her coworker was treated by the pastor, but she did deserve some punishment for publicizing the identifying information (I probably would go for suspension rather than termination, though).

Also, if Applebees is going to attach a mandatory surcharge for large parties of diners (which is perfectly fair), they shouldn't call it a tip, even if it goes to the server(s). Call it a service charge or something. That way, when the receipt asks for an additional voluntary tip (as this one did), people will hopefully be more inclined to leave one.

[tighr]

Locutus of Bored wrote:

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Also, if Applebees is going to attach a mandatory surcharge for large parties of diners (which is perfectly fair), they shouldn't call it a tip, even if it goes to the server(s). Call it a service charge or something. That way, when the receipt asks for an additional voluntary tip (as this one did), people will hopefully be more inclined to leave one.

See, that kind of logic goes right along with the other thread about how stupid are we that we need spelled out warning labels, disclaimer, etc.

Most restaurants like Applebees have a disclaimer written directly on the menu that a mandatory 18% gratuity is added to parties of 6/8 or more. I would hope that customers wouldn't get pedantic because the receipt said "tip 18%" and not "mandatory gratuity 18%."

You should know that going in, and either choose not to eat at that restaurant or limit your group size to 5 or 7. When a gratuity is mandatory, it should be considered a service charge, and you can vote with your wallet and go to another restaurant that will perfectly allow you to stiff your server.

[Locutus of Bored]

tighr wrote:

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See, that kind of logic goes right along with the other thread about how stupid are we that we need spelled out warning labels, disclaimer, etc.

Most restaurants like Applebees have a disclaimer written directly on the menu that a mandatory 18% gratuity is added to parties of 6/8 or more. I would hope that customers wouldn't get pedantic because the receipt said "tip 18%" and not "mandatory gratuity 18%."

You should know that going in, and either choose not to eat at that restaurant or limit your group size to 5 or 7. When a gratuity is mandatory, it should be considered a service charge, and you can vote with your wallet and go to another restaurant that will perfectly allow you to stiff your server.

So, you agree with me that it should be considered a service charge and you should also leave a voluntary tip if you received quality service, but the mere suggestion that the restaurant chain make an effortless programming change so their receipts distinguish between the two is indicative of incredibly stupid logic and on par with disclaimers like "Do not attempt" in car commercials where they're jumping cars off of cliffs and out of planes?

How many tipping threads have we had where people have been confused by, irritated by, or unfamiliar with tipping customs in the US? To many foreign visitors it's bizarre, and even many people in the US dislike or are confused about the etiquette. So why not make it a bit simpler and avoid confusion when it's such an easy change and probably won't cost anything to implement?

Personally I think it's stupid logic to associate minor beneficial business policy changes with bringing about the dumbing down of society or to think it shouldn't be done to draw some kind of needless line in the sand against encroaching stupidity. But hey, that's me.

[tighr]

Locutus of Bored wrote:

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So, you agree with me that it should be considered a service charge and you should also leave a voluntary tip if you received quality service, but the mere suggestion that the restaurant chain make an effortless programming change so their receipts distinguish between the two is indicative of incredibly stupid logic and on par with disclaimers like "Do not attempt" in car commercials where they're jumping cars off of cliffs and out of planes?

Yes.

Locutus of Bored wrote:

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How many tipping threads have we had where people have been confused by, irritated by, or unfamiliar with tipping customs in the US? To many foreign visitors it's bizarre, and even many people in the US dislike or are confused about the etiquette. So why not make it a bit simpler and avoid confusion when it's such an easy change and probably won't cost anything to implement?

It's already written on the menu. Yet clearly the pastor in question disagreed with the stated policy. Changing it to "service charge" likely would have not stopped her from crossing out the 18% and leaving zero anyway.

Your argument about foreigners being confused about our tipping policy is valid when there is a blank on the receipt to add tip. But in the case of this pastor, the 18% gratuity was already added on the receipt in ADDITION to a blank for additional tip. Nowhere did it say "Oh, if you think this server didn't deserve her mandatory 18%, feel free to cross it out and stiff her". As far as the pastor should have been concerned, she had been presented with an absolute minimum cost of the service of eating at that restaurant, and she chose to leave less. That'd be like me going to the gas station, filling up my tank, and telling the attendant "I feel like I only owe you $2 per gallon of gas, so here's $40."

[Locutus of Bored]

Except I wasn't talking about the pastor there, I was making a separate point about what's printed on Applebee's receipts and why I think they should change it.

I said the waitress was right to be disgusted by the pastor's behavior, so obviously I wasn't implying confusion on her part or that she mistakenly didn't leave a tip. She was clearly making a statement.

[FFunctionalData]

because of negative stereotypes I over tip

[doubleohfive]

The clusterfuck continues...

[trekkiedane]

^

-Especially that last batch of captures.

[Jan]

I'm glad they fired the stupid server. If somebody doesn't have the basic
common sense to not post personal information online, they should be cleaning bathrooms.

[trekkiedane]

^But her employers posted similar personal information before she did -what was she supposed to think? -anyone would think it was OK to do so!

[doubleohfive]

Jan wrote:

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I'm glad they fired the stupid server. If somebody doesn't have the basic
common sense to not post personal information online, they should be cleaning bathrooms.

What "personal information" did she post? More importantly, what kind of sad prick do you have to be to take pleasure in someone else being fired?

[trekkiedane]

doubleohfive wrote:

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/.../what kind of sad prick do you have to be to take pleasure in someone else being fired?

Oh, leave him alone, he probably thinks some "god" is more important than real people...

[Jan]

trekkiedane wrote:

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^But her employers posted similar personal information before she did -what was she supposed to think? -anyone would think it was OK to do so!

Really? They'd think that a corporation would do so without permission? I don't

doubleohfive wrote:

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What "personal information" did she post? More importantly, what kind of sad prick do you have to be to take pleasure in someone else being fired?

The pastor's full name and signature. Given that people found and told him about it when the picture went viral, that's plenty, I'd say.

And I don't take pleasure in the server getting fired. I'm simply glad that there's no chance I'll ever give her my credit card for even a moment. Somebody might convince her that it was okay for her to share that information.

trekkiedane wrote:

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Oh, leave him alone, he probably thinks some "god" is more important than real people...

SHE doesn't think anything of the sort. Would you care to make any more incorrect and baseless assumptions?

I'm all in favor of servers getting every cent they can. It's hard word, I know. But if they want to let off steam there are plenty of places where it could have been done by simply transcribing the note. But she crossed the line bigtime.

Jan

[trekkiedane]

Jan wrote:

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SHE doesn't think anything of the sort. Would you care to make any more incorrect and baseless assumptions?

Sorry 'bout that -you just happen to sign your post with the same name that I have -I just momentarily forgot that other cultures have other gender-specific names...

I'm all in favor of servers getting every cent they can. It's hard word, I know. But if they want to let off steam there are plenty of places where it could have been done by simply transcribing the note. But she crossed the line bigtime.

I don't get it: of those several places I can only think of FacePlace and the likes...