Janeway's admiral rank.

Mr Pointy Ears · February 2 2013, 02:22 AM

In nemesis,she held the rank of vice admiral,did she still hold that rank during the future before she went back in time to return voyager home earlier or was he promoted again?.

E-DUB · February 2 2013, 02:54 AM

Different timeline.

King Daniel · February 2 2013, 01:30 PM

Yeah, she changed history so whatever rank or position she held in the pre-"Endgame" future may not be what she becomes in the new timeline. This Janeway won't be going back in time, since Voyager got home 20 years earlier, Seven and Chakotay are alive and Tuvok gets to save his marbles.

Besides, I only recall her being called "Admiral Janeway" in "Endgame" and Star Trek Nemesis. Is the "vice" bit from the novels?

The Wormhole · February 2 2013, 01:42 PM

King Daniel wrote:

Besides, I only recall her being called "Admiral Janeway" in "Endgame" and Star Trek Nemesis. Is the "vice" bit from the novels?

She wore the rank insignia of a Vice Admiral (three boxed pips) in Nemesis. Which would mean that in two years she's been promoted three times.

King Daniel · February 2 2013, 01:47 PM

Ah, I didn't realize admirals had different rank pips. Thanks.

Mage · February 2 2013, 06:32 PM

I thought the one pip admiral bar was Rear Admiral and the two pip Admiral bar Vice Admiral?

*EDIT* Never mind, just checked Memory Alpha, I'm wrong.

Timo · February 6 2013, 01:23 PM

Well, the debate can rage on because three pips has also been associated with "Fleet Admiral"...

...Although we might say that "Fleet Admiral" is any admiral in charge of a specific fleet, regardless of exact rank. We have seen two-pippers and three-pippers in command of fleets. We have also seen four-pippers who have never been addressed as anything other than "Admiral", which is fine and well. And we can postulate the existence of a five-pip rank (to match the highest rank in the TOS movie pin system) but we don't need to, as well as the existence of a one-pip rank (to make the system complete and logical) and we sort of need to, even when there's no onscreen evidence.

Should we assume that people like Janeway would have to spend time at flag ranks of one or two pips before getting the three-pip rank? In real navies of today, there are very limited positions available for flag officers, and the positions typically require a specific rank of the officer; it may well happen that a suitable officer is promoted "directly" to the rank best matching his or her position, then. But Starfleet is a vast organization where such concerns ought not apply...

Of course, for all we know, Janeway was an extremely competent officer overall, and the seven years stuck on Voyager were in no way representative of her true ability to climb the rank ladder. She may have been promoted to the one-pip flag rank at triumphant return, skyrocketed through the two-pip rank, and just hit Vice Admiral by the time of ST:NEM.

Timo Saloniemi

Xerxes1979 · February 7 2013, 06:36 PM

Why would Janeway even accept promtion? Wasn't she in love with the thrill of command and exploration?

Its not like she couldn't have gotten another command in the aftermath of the Dominion war staffing shortages.

Moving up the admiral ladder is for grey hairs before you retire.

The Mirrorball Man · February 7 2013, 06:49 PM

Xerxes1979 wrote:

Why would Janeway even accept promtion? Wasn't she in love with the thrill of command and exploration?

A cameo was needed and a scene with an admiral was already written, presumably.

The Wormhole · February 7 2013, 08:24 PM

Xerxes1979 wrote:

Why would Janeway even accept promtion? Wasn't she in love with the thrill of command and exploration?

Its not like she couldn't have gotten another command in the aftermath of the Dominion war staffing shortages.

Moving up the admiral ladder is for grey hairs before you retire.

Not everyone holds Kirk and Picard's disdain of Admiral's rank. To some people, becoming an Admiral might even be a career goal. And after seven years stranded on the other end of the galaxy, a desk job might even seem appealing.

Timo · February 7 2013, 08:27 PM

...Is there some sort of an onscreen reference to this "love of the thrill of command and exploration"?

Timo Saloniemi

Phily B · February 7 2013, 08:30 PM

Xerxes1979 wrote:

Why would Janeway even accept promtion? Wasn't she in love with the thrill of command and exploration?

Its not like she couldn't have gotten another command in the aftermath of the Dominion war staffing shortages.

Moving up the admiral ladder is for grey hairs before you retire.

i like the theory it was a token desk job to keep morale up instead of revealing all the terrible and bizarre things janeway did in the delta quadrant.

sonak · February 7 2013, 08:50 PM

Phily B wrote:

Xerxes1979 wrote:

Why would Janeway even accept promtion? Wasn't she in love with the thrill of command and exploration?

Its not like she couldn't have gotten another command in the aftermath of the Dominion war staffing shortages.

Moving up the admiral ladder is for grey hairs before you retire.

i like the theory it was a token desk job to keep morale up instead of revealing all the terrible and bizarre things janeway did in the delta quadrant.

or a way of putting her somewhere where they could keep her out of trouble

The Wormhole · February 7 2013, 09:13 PM

Timo wrote:

...Is there some sort of an onscreen reference to this "love of the thrill of command and exploration"?

Timo Saloniemi

Not that I know of.

C.E. Evans · February 7 2013, 11:59 PM

The Wormhole wrote:

Xerxes1979 wrote:

Why would Janeway even accept promtion? Wasn't she in love with the thrill of command and exploration?

Its not like she couldn't have gotten another command in the aftermath of the Dominion war staffing shortages.

Moving up the admiral ladder is for grey hairs before you retire.

Not everyone holds Kirk and Picard's disdain of Admiral's rank. To some people, becoming an Admiral might even be a career goal. And after seven years stranded on the other end of the galaxy, a desk job might even seem appealing.

You get to go home at the end of every day, for starters.

February 2 2013, 02:22 AM	#1
Mr Pointy Ears Commander Location: Adelaide,australia	Janeway's admiral rank. In nemesis,she held the rank of vice admiral,did she still hold that rank during the future before she went back in time to return voyager home earlier or was he promoted again?.

February 2 2013, 02:54 AM	#2
E-DUB Commander	Re: Janeway's admiral rank. Different timeline.

February 2 2013, 01:30 PM	#3
King Daniel Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Janeway's admiral rank. Yeah, she changed history so whatever rank or position she held in the pre-"Endgame" future may not be what she becomes in the new timeline. This Janeway won't be going back in time, since Voyager got home 20 years earlier, Seven and Chakotay are alive and Tuvok gets to save his marbles. Besides, I only recall her being called "Admiral Janeway" in "Endgame" and Star Trek Nemesis. Is the "vice" bit from the novels? __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

February 2 2013, 01:47 PM	#5
King Daniel Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Janeway's admiral rank. Ah, I didn't realize admirals had different rank pips. Thanks. __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

February 2 2013, 06:32 PM	#6
Mage Fleet Captain	Re: Janeway's admiral rank. I thought the one pip admiral bar was Rear Admiral and the two pip Admiral bar Vice Admiral? EDIT Never mind, just checked Memory Alpha, I'm wrong. __________________ Niner. Lurker. Browncoat.

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

February 6 2013, 01:23 PM	#7
Timo Admiral	Re: Janeway's admiral rank. Well, the debate can rage on because three pips has also been associated with "Fleet Admiral"... ...Although we might say that "Fleet Admiral" is any admiral in charge of a specific fleet, regardless of exact rank. We have seen two-pippers and three-pippers in command of fleets. We have also seen four-pippers who have never been addressed as anything other than "Admiral", which is fine and well. And we can postulate the existence of a five-pip rank (to match the highest rank in the TOS movie pin system) but we don't need to, as well as the existence of a one-pip rank (to make the system complete and logical) and we sort of need to, even when there's no onscreen evidence. Should we assume that people like Janeway would have to spend time at flag ranks of one or two pips before getting the three-pip rank? In real navies of today, there are very limited positions available for flag officers, and the positions typically require a specific rank of the officer; it may well happen that a suitable officer is promoted "directly" to the rank best matching his or her position, then. But Starfleet is a vast organization where such concerns ought not apply... Of course, for all we know, Janeway was an extremely competent officer overall, and the seven years stuck on Voyager were in no way representative of her true ability to climb the rank ladder. She may have been promoted to the one-pip flag rank at triumphant return, skyrocketed through the two-pip rank, and just hit Vice Admiral by the time of ST:NEM. Timo Saloniemi

February 7 2013, 06:36 PM	#8
Xerxes1979 Captain Location: Gamma Hydra Section 10	Re: Janeway's admiral rank. Why would Janeway even accept promtion? Wasn't she in love with the thrill of command and exploration? Its not like she couldn't have gotten another command in the aftermath of the Dominion war staffing shortages. Moving up the admiral ladder is for grey hairs before you retire. __________________ "Your knowledge of Klingon curses is impressive. But, as the Romulans might say, only a Veruul would use such language in public"

February 7 2013, 08:27 PM	#11
Timo Admiral	Re: Janeway's admiral rank. ...Is there some sort of an onscreen reference to this "love of the thrill of command and exploration"? Timo Saloniemi