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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old February 1 2013, 07:11 PM   #16
Dale Sams
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Re: TOS Phasers

Do we ever see the overload setting post-TOS?

Also re: the bum killing himself in COTEOF...I always assumed he set it to overload and then fired it. Reason being the sound effect, and that he doesn't seem to be aiming it at himself.
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Old February 1 2013, 09:48 PM   #17
Timo
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Re: TOS Phasers

Do we ever see the overload setting post-TOS?
Nope. The perfect time to threaten with that would be in "Frame of Mind", but instead the crazed Riker threatens to use Level 16 to, well, level the building...

Also re: the bum killing himself in COTEOF...I always assumed he set it to overload and then fired it. Reason being the sound effect, and that he doesn't seem to be aiming it at himself.
Makes at least some sense. Supposedly, the controls are difficult to operate correctly - leading to the demise of not just the bum, but Nona in "A Private Little War" as well.

I mean, yeah, the latter could be due to there simply being a safety of some sort for these weapons. But we have seen all sorts of people expertly or at least inexpertly operate captured Phaser One and Two units, so a complex fumble rather than a simple inability to release the safety is a likely cause of death...

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Old February 2 2013, 12:46 AM   #18
CorporalCaptain
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Re: TOS Phasers

Timo wrote: View Post
Lenore claims she knows how to use the phaser she grabs, but should we really believe her?
Since evidently she set the phaser to overload earlier in the episode, I'd believe her.
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Old February 2 2013, 09:15 PM   #19
publiusr
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Re: TOS Phasers

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

Scotty used a phaser to cut through a bulkhead in The Naked Time; "blowtorch" could be its own different setting. Under the original effects, there was no beam shown at all in that case (as if it was --say-- infrared).
I actually liked that the beam wasn't shown--focused to the point of an invisible, sub-needle thin beam to cut that material

Dematerialize was a setting IIRC

As for stun--they are working on that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser
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Old February 2 2013, 09:44 PM   #20
Retu
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Re: TOS Phasers

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Do we ever see the overload setting post-TOS?
Yes. In the TNG episode The Hunted, Roga Danar sets a phaser on overload and leaves it in the turbolift for Worf and another security officer when they are trying to capture him.
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Old February 2 2013, 10:46 PM   #21
Unicron
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Re: TOS Phasers

He also blows up a panel with another phaser, and uses one to power the cargo transporter.
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Old February 3 2013, 01:43 AM   #22
CorporalCaptain
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Re: TOS Phasers

Unicron wrote: View Post
uses one to power the cargo transporter.
Which was pretty darn cool I thought, and was a first in Star Trek wasn't it?

And which brings us full circle: If a hand phaser holds enough juice to power at least one human transport, then surely it holds enough juice to power half a transport and beam someone out of existence. It's not a question of raw power.

The only technical issue with whether the phaser works that way is in the nature of the beam itself; does it have the right kind of emitters. A distinction between what we saw on TOS and what we saw in TWOK with dematerialization was that in TOS, the setting seemed to freeze the victim in his tracks. Of course, the color was a pale and ghostlike and hardly suggested flames and burning, also in contrast to TWOK. The OP's question is hardly a dumb one.

No residue or scorch marks were left on decks. I'm going to admit that until TWOK, I thought the TOS dematerialize was always a conversion of matter to energy, because the victim seemed to simply disappear. What we saw in ENT: In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II, was a retcon.
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Old February 3 2013, 02:05 AM   #23
The Lensman
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Re: TOS Phasers

For some reason, maybe the original Tech Manual I forget, my brother and I used the term "dematerialize" for that glowing\vanish effect.
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Old February 3 2013, 02:04 PM   #24
Saul
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Re: TOS Phasers

Why do phasers have vaporize settings anyway? It's pretty nasty way of killing and removing the mess at the same time. Seems a bit like overkill.
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Old February 3 2013, 09:19 PM   #25
jayrath
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Re: TOS Phasers

Because they're the Swiss Army knives of the future. You can use them to heat rocks, cut through an engineering bulkhead, stun a gangster and, yes, vaporize something -- such as the top of a mountain concealing the entrance to the Talosians lair. I think we seldom (ever?) see Starfleet personnel in their right minds using them to kill. Offhand, I can only think of the salt vampire being killed (in defense of the captain), and even that wasn't vaporization, and it was after attempts to stun.
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Old February 3 2013, 10:24 PM   #26
C.E. Evans
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Re: TOS Phasers

Phasers are as much tools as they are weapons, IMO. It may have been that tool aspect of them that prompted them to look more like "dustbusters" rather than outright pistols in TNG.
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Old February 4 2013, 01:45 AM   #27
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Re: TOS Phasers

jayrath wrote: View Post
Because they're the Swiss Army knives of the future. You can use them to heat rocks, cut through an engineering bulkhead, stun a gangster and, yes, vaporize something -- such as the top of a mountain concealing the entrance to the Talosians lair. I think we seldom (ever?) see Starfleet personnel in their right minds using them to kill. Offhand, I can only think of the salt vampire being killed (in defense of the captain), and even that wasn't vaporization, and it was after attempts to stun.
Good answer.
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Old February 4 2013, 11:50 AM   #28
Timo
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Re: TOS Phasers

Since evidently she set the phaser to overload earlier in the episode, I'd believe her.
...But in this argument, setting a phaser to overload is supposed to be a no-brainer, as the bum of "City on the Edge" did it by accident.

Perhaps it's a Prime Directive consideration - tampering will very probably result in destruction?

If a hand phaser holds enough juice to power at least one human transport
...Or just to power up the control console? The ship herself wasn't powered down: the heroes locked out certain functions and powered down certain systems. Perhaps they thought that powering down transporter controls would make it impossible to route power to the transporters?

in TOS, the setting seemed to freeze the victim in his tracks
Or perhaps the victim was phased out of this world in a nanosecond, and the afterimage created this impression.

A slower phasing out would allow the victim to do what people in transporter beams are capable of doing: moving about.

I thought the TOS dematerialize was always a conversion of matter to energy, because the victim seemed to simply disappear.
Even if most of the energy went "elsewhere", having any of it remain at the death scene would create effects: hot winds at the very least, and scorch marks in all likelihood. Conversion to something more exotic would probably be a more convenient explanation.

I think we seldom (ever?) see Starfleet personnel in their right minds using them to kill.
Not in TOS, no, AFAIK. Not in the line of duty. Personal vendettas such as Riley's probably wouldn't qualify as "in their right minds".

Kirk's victim in ST3 after the beam-down to Genesis was the first one not to get up again, wasn't he?

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Old February 4 2013, 01:25 PM   #29
CorporalCaptain
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Re: TOS Phasers

Timo wrote: View Post
Since evidently she set the phaser to overload earlier in the episode, I'd believe her.
...But in this argument, setting a phaser to overload is supposed to be a no-brainer, as the bum of "City on the Edge" did it by accident.

Perhaps it's a Prime Directive consideration - tampering will very probably result in destruction?
Nah, she really knew how to use a phaser. She was a bad ass!

If a hand phaser holds enough juice to power at least one human transport
...Or just to power up the control console? The ship herself wasn't powered down: the heroes locked out certain functions and powered down certain systems. Perhaps they thought that powering down transporter controls would make it impossible to route power to the transporters?
Worf said, "He used a phaser to power the cargo transporter." [http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/159.htm] Plus, that connector looked like it was specifically designed for a phaser to seat into. Seems pretty clear cut.

Or perhaps the victim was phased out of this world in a nanosecond, and the afterimage created this impression.

A slower phasing out would allow the victim to do what people in transporter beams are capable of doing: moving about.
This I agree with.

I thought the TOS dematerialize was always a conversion of matter to energy, because the victim seemed to simply disappear.
Even if most of the energy went "elsewhere", having any of it remain at the death scene would create effects: hot winds at the very least, and scorch marks in all likelihood. Conversion to something more exotic would probably be a more convenient explanation.
This I agree with, too, if by exotic you mean something not established by contemporary particle physics.

I think we seldom (ever?) see Starfleet personnel in their right minds using them to kill.
Not in TOS, no, AFAIK. Not in the line of duty. Personal vendettas such as Riley's probably wouldn't qualify as "in their right minds".

Kirk's victim in ST3 after the beam-down to Genesis was the first one not to get up again, wasn't he?
In A Private Little War, McCoy and Kirk both dematerialized Mugatos, without trying to stun them first. Perhaps Kirk knew that stunning would be unsafe or ineffectual, from his previous visit to Neural, and instructed the landing parties accordingly.
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Old February 4 2013, 03:39 PM   #30
Timo
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Re: TOS Phasers

Plus, that connector looked like it was specifically designed for a phaser to seat into.
I'm not really convinced...

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...ehunted230.jpg

They probably had to use duct tape to keep the prop from falling out!

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