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Old January 16 2013, 01:23 AM   #31
Enterprise is Great
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

I'm guessing that moriarty shows up in person in the season finale or a few episodes before that.
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Old January 16 2013, 06:04 AM   #32
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

That's what we thought about Red John.
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Old January 16 2013, 06:52 PM   #33
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Doherty is more straightforward with Elementary than Heller is with The Mentalist though. And since Moriarty is a well known character there's no reason to stretch it out as long as the Red John thing.
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Old January 16 2013, 08:05 PM   #34
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Elementary is my favorite new show this year. Not being the biggest Sherlock Holmes enthusiast, I can live with this interpretation. I really like the characters and the actors playing them in this. I think Jonny Lee Miller is fantastic as Holmes, however Lucy Liu is even better as Watson. I like how she under plays it to how Miller is with Holmes. She has a real vulnerability in this and its refreshing. My only major issue with the show is how they write Aidan Quinn's character of Captain Gregson. He is suppose to know how brilliant Holmes is, working with him in London. However he regularly doesn't heed the advice of Holmes or plainly fights back against it. Makes his character apear stupid, which is sad.
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Old January 16 2013, 08:13 PM   #35
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I guess what's unusual here is that we're used to seeing the character of Moriarty introduced at a point when Holmes is already aware of him and has been tracking him for some time -- but here we're coming in on the ground floor, seeing the moment when Holmes first became aware of a shadowy criminal mastermind.
Exactly. At this point, pretty much everything Holmes knows about Moriarity is a name on an index card, surrounded by a lot of empty space. As represented by that final scene.

Moriarity (whomever he or she is) has obviously been aware of Holmes for some time, but Holmes only just now became aware of Moriarity's existence.
Well Sherlock did say he had been assisting Scotland Yard for quite awhile in tracking down M, so I assumed he would have pieced together at least a little more by now (even with all the rampant drug use).

Hell, just the fact he was able to elude Sherlock for this long should have made it clear that this was no normal, everyday killer.
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Old January 16 2013, 08:25 PM   #36
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
Hell, just the fact he was able to elude Sherlock for this long should have made it clear that this was no normal, everyday killer.
What, and just because of the way he looked and his working-class accent, Holmes should've immediately dismissed him as incapable of being unusually intelligent? I'm sure there are plenty of Brits who would embrace such stereotypical assumptions, but Holmes would surely know better.
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Old January 16 2013, 08:29 PM   #37
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Of course dear chap, being a master criminal is a gentleman's game.
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Old January 16 2013, 08:58 PM   #38
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I guess what's unusual here is that we're used to seeing the character of Moriarty introduced at a point when Holmes is already aware of him and has been tracking him for some time -- but here we're coming in on the ground floor, seeing the moment when Holmes first became aware of a shadowy criminal mastermind.
Exactly. At this point, pretty much everything Holmes knows about Moriarity is a name on an index card, surrounded by a lot of empty space. As represented by that final scene.

Moriarity (whomever he or she is) has obviously been aware of Holmes for some time, but Holmes only just now became aware of Moriarity's existence.
Well Sherlock did say he had been assisting Scotland Yard for quite awhile in tracking down M, so I assumed he would have pieced together at least a little more by now (even with all the rampant drug use).

.
Yeah, but the "M" he was tracking was Moran, not Moriarity. Holmes had never heard of "Moriarity" until last episode.
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Old January 16 2013, 11:24 PM   #39
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

stj wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It better not be Watson.
True. But, I wonder if Doherty has read the late, great Michael Dibdin's The Last Sherlock Holmes Story?

(Yes, I know I'm evil.)
An excellent book, and one I should reread.
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Old January 16 2013, 11:31 PM   #40
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

^^^Wouldn't a similar approach make a truly remarkable version of Moriarty? (Don't want to spoil the novel.)
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Old January 17 2013, 02:04 AM   #41
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

stj wrote: View Post
^^^Wouldn't a similar approach make a truly remarkable version of Moriarty? (Don't want to spoil the novel.)
Oh, yeah, definitely. People would be talking about it for years.

I suppose that Doherty would have to option Dibdin's novel. Even if he didn't adapt that particular story, he'd want the idea behind the story, and he'd want to do it safely and without fear of litigation. But that option also means money, which is why Elementary probably won't go down that road with the Napoleon of Crime.
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Old February 1 2013, 01:12 PM   #42
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Elementary returned last night.

The apparent suicide of a conspiracy theory peddler led Holmes to the murders of the "Red Team" from the Army's 2009's war games. However, Holmes was basically on his own as Gregson had cut ties with Holmes after the Moran affair.

This one kept me guessing. I didn't figure out the Who of the crime until just before Holmes did, and I never did figure out the Why until Holmes explained it.

It was also surprisingly funny. Clyde is a wonderful addition to the cast.

And the scene between Holmes and Gregson at the end was great, and the way Gregson ended the conversation was surprising.

Only a few more days to the Super Bowl episode.
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Old February 1 2013, 04:04 PM   #43
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

I love it that Holmes's hobby is messing with conspiracy theorists! And I love how casually, and correctly, the episode deflated the whole idea that it's possible for a large group of people to keep a massive secret indefinitely. The whole plot revolved around that impossibility. How refreshing, when so many works of fiction (including the immediately preceding show on CBS) depend on the mythology of vast, all-powerful evil conspiracies, to see a story that so blithely deconstructs the very idea.

On the other end of the credibility spectrum, it's a bit hard to take Gregson's hostility toward Holmes seriously when Holmes is not, you know, under arrest for kidnapping and attempted murder. Realistically, he should be going to jail for a long time for those acts; the fact that he changed his mind about homicide doesn't negate the other crimes he committed. But Gregson's just letting him walk free, so he can't be as angry and judgmental as he was portrayed. It's a necessary contrivance to keep the series going, but it's hard to swallow.

As for putting an episode after the Super Bowl, that's most annoying for someone like me who couldn't care less about football (American or otherwise). There's no telling when the episode will actually begin, and I can't DVR it if there's no fixed starting time. I guess my best bet is On Demand.
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Old February 1 2013, 05:33 PM   #44
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Christopher wrote: View Post
On the other end of the credibility spectrum, it's a bit hard to take Gregson's hostility toward Holmes seriously when Holmes is not, you know, under arrest for kidnapping and attempted murder. Realistically, he should be going to jail for a long time for those acts; the fact that he changed his mind about homicide doesn't negate the other crimes he committed. But Gregson's just letting him walk free, so he can't be as angry and judgmental as he was portrayed. It's a necessary contrivance to keep the series going, but it's hard to swallow.
Except how do you prove that Holmes kidnapped and attempted to murder Moran? We saw that Moran said that he got the jump on Holmes and the wound he received in the gut was inflicted by Holmes in self-defense. Gregson's problem is that he knows that Holmes crossed a line but that his prime witness to that crime says it didn't happen. Even if they charged Holmes and took it to trial, Moran's statement would be exculpatory evidence against the state's case, and Holmes' lawyer would flog that fifty ways to Sunday. And even if the state tried to flip Moran by offering him a reduced sentence, Moran knows that Holmes is his only chance of getting revenge on Moriarty. In short, Gregson's hands are tied, and that's fueling his anger.

That said, I expect Holmes and Gregson to work out their differences. The animosity Gregson has will continue to be an issue, and we'll probably see a resolution to it at the end of this season. Haven't they mentioned that Gregson has a son? My guess is that Moriarty will target Gregson's family, and he he will have to trust in Holmes to do the right thing and save his son.

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I guess my best bet is On Demand.
They've been running the episodes for free on CBS.com after they air. I'd imagine they'd do the same with the Super Bowl episode.
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Old February 1 2013, 07:14 PM   #45
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Re: ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Unfortunately, the notion that realistically Holmes would be charged for his crimes against Moran is incorrect. Even beyond the technical difficulties in pursuing a case against Moran's testimony, there is the question of what truly is more realistic. Would the police really want to pursue charges against Holmes?

They never like to pursue charges against official members who resort to torture and other forms of violence against perpetrators. Sadly it is highly unlikely they would want to make a case against an unofficial member. The unlikelihood of a conviction really makes it very improbable, were such a thing to somehow occur in reality.

There is nothing realistic about momdern day Holmes. (Sadly the main realism in the original stories was the ignorance and incompetence of the police.) What there is, is a pseudorealism, where an illusion of realism is provided. So long as a superficial appearance is kept up, all is good. Violations of this pseudorealism is bad style and cleverness in maintaining the illusion is good style. But it's merely superficial.
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