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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 31 2013, 11:24 PM   #31
Wingsley
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

This absolutely does not explain the rectangular badge worn by the crew of the U.S.S. Exeter ("The Omega Glory", 1968) as seen on both Capt. Tracey and the ship's C.M.O.
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Old January 31 2013, 11:27 PM   #32
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Wingsley wrote: View Post
This absolutely does not explain the rectangular badge worn by the crew of the U.S.S. Exeter ("The Omega Glory", 1968) as seen on both Capt. Tracey and the ship's C.M.O.
So, it's referring to Decker's pretzel?

Maybe there are some more memos?
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Old January 31 2013, 11:59 PM   #33
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

I haven't been able to find any further memorandum on this issue.

I'm not sure what dailies Justman was watching (I found the memo in a box and folder devoted to wardrobe items, not a particular episode).

The information I have indicates that "The Omega Glory" was filmed on December 18-26, 1967. I was under the impression that it took 24 hours to turn around dailies, but perhaps a date is slightly wrong somewhere, and that's the episode Justman was watching dailies from.

Justman couldn't have been watching dailies from "The Doomsday Machine," though. That was filmed on June 20-26, and broadcast on October 20, 1967, months before Justman's insignia memo.
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Old February 1 2013, 12:05 AM   #34
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Well, that's strange then, and hard to square with Decker's unique pretzel insignia, a much more recent thing than the Antares insignia.
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Old February 1 2013, 02:10 AM   #35
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?
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Last edited by Wingsley; February 1 2013 at 02:10 AM. Reason: typo
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Old February 1 2013, 02:14 AM   #36
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Wingsley wrote: View Post
Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?
You mean on screen?

Going by the fact that Bjo Trimble's Star Trek Concordance shows a completely different badge from that shown in ENT: In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II, and one evidently of fan origin, by Robert Wood, I'd have to say that I really, really doubt it.
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Old February 1 2013, 02:29 AM   #37
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Wingsley wrote: View Post
Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?
There are a few shots of the dead crew where the insignia is clearly the delta/arrowhead.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...nwebhd0270.jpg
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Old February 1 2013, 02:45 AM   #38
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Wingsley wrote: View Post
Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?
There are a few shots of the dead crew where the insignia is clearly the delta/arrowhead.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...nwebhd0270.jpg
I won't go so far as to say that it's "clear" in that shot, because I have to squint to see it, even on this HD image. And I'd bet that was impossible to make out on first run broadcasts.

But I agree that it is the arrowhead on the redshirt there. Thanks for that.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...nwebhd0228.jpg is much clearer.
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Old February 1 2013, 11:37 AM   #39
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Harvey wrote: View Post

Under penalty of death!

Signed this 18th day of December, in the year of our Lord, 1967, by

ROBERT H. JUSTMAN
Chief Inquisitor
I really love Bobby Justman's style. Hopefully his memo will put an end to these unfounded claims / excuses for lack of proper TOS research that "they often didn't know what they were doing." (which were also quite upsetting my stomach, I should add).

That passionate devotion to detail clearly indicates the contrary.

"The Tholian Web" is just another beautiful example, that you can either choose the "Thermian" or the "Brandon" approach.

For the Thermians - taking the on-screen information literal - there'd be enough evidence that the crew of the Defiant also wore the Enterprise insignia.

The fact, however, that almost all the bodies of the extras were deliberately positioned to obscure the insignia, would indicate it would or should have been a different one, but because of schedule and/or budget restrictions that was probably not possible.

Bob
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Old February 1 2013, 02:38 PM   #40
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I really love Bobby Justman's style. Hopefully his memo will put an end to these unfounded claims / excuses for lack of proper TOS research that "they often didn't know what they were doing." (which were also quite upsetting my stomach, I should add).

That passionate devotion to detail clearly indicates the contrary.
But the memo doesn't really support that. It shows one producer relying on memory, and apparently forgetting the Matt Decker insignia and the "Balance of Terror" Outpost insignia.

The wardrobe department could easily have put together a notebook or file with the previously-used insignia and what they were supposed to mean (and maybe what the commander/lieutenant commander stripes were, while they were at it). If there's a question, look here, there's the answer. Apparently they didn't have anything to reference. And that's completely understandable, they had bigger things to worry about. But it doesn't really indicate a passionate devotion to detail.

Interesting memo, though, thanks to Harvey for posting.

Justin
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Old February 2 2013, 08:58 AM   #41
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

The Outpost insignia isn't germane because it's not starship crew.

Re the Justman memo: production dates below.

Ultimate Computer
Lucas, John Meredyth
Prod #53
Shoot dates: 12/7-12/14/67

The Omega Glory
McEveety, Vincent
Prod #54
Shoot dates: 12/18-12/26/67

As I recall, the dates I have here are confirmed shoot dates, but I understand some days may not be accounted for. The Dec. 18th memo date and the admonition not to change the insignia would indicate the episode in question would be Omega Glory, since the previous episode would have wrapped and there'd be nothing to fix.
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Old February 2 2013, 08:24 PM   #42
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Masao wrote: View Post
Good work, DakotaSmith!
Now, can you track this down?

Pfftt ... nope. I totally stumbled across the initial pic on a Google search -- they made the connection, not me. I just looked up what it was called and found some online.

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Old February 3 2013, 06:03 AM   #43
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

I have this pet theory according to which every seven years the achievements of Starfleet's starships are evaluated and the "best" ship is honored by adapting its insignia for Starfleet (all non-starship personnel).
I hadn't really thought about that before, and I will admit I've always preferred having a single Starfleet uniform emblem (as with TNG on) than the way individual ship insignia were portrayed in TOS, but I do find the idea interesting.
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Old February 3 2013, 08:03 PM   #44
Robert Comsol
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
But the memo doesn't really support that. It shows one producer relying on memory, and apparently forgetting the Matt Decker insignia.
The Justman memo shows that he cared about such details and possibly somehow missed "The Doomsday Machine".
It's interesting (thanks Maurice) that he wrote this memo the day they started shooting "The Omega Glory" (can I please see the memo he wrote after seeing the dailies for this episode ).

It would almost seem they deliberately decided not to come up with a new insignia for the Defiant in "The Tholian Web" just to appease Bob Justman.

Bob
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Old February 4 2013, 02:46 AM   #45
Wingsley
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Re: Starfleet Command Insignia

Really silly question:

Discounting what we saw in ENT's "In a Mirror, Darkly", were there ever any clear images of the Defiant personnel's badges? Or were the visibility of the badges in "The Tholian Web" so poor as to make it academic?
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