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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 16 2012, 06:17 AM   #31
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Christopher wrote: View Post
But you're still talking about a different issue from what I meant in the statement that you quoted. I thought (incorrectly, it seems) that RonG had the mistaken impression that the creation of the Pact concept was dictated by marketing considerations, and I was clarifying that it was conceived for creative reasons and the marketing choices came later. After all, the first Typhon Pact book, A Singular Destiny, came out 21 months before the first book with a Typhon Pact label. So all I'm saying is that the creation of the story concept preceded the creation of the brand. (And it seems to me that people sometimes forget the key role ASD played in the Pact narrative because it doesn't have the label on it. I've seen a number of posters call Zero Sum Game the first Pact novel, overlooking ASD altogether.)
ASD is very much the start of what I think of as the first arc of the TP/ Post-Destiny "era" - In my OP, I mentioned that I personally (and some - like Christopher - may disagree with that particular point) see ASD as the starting point of 3 distinct arcs, the main one centered on the rise of the TP and the battle for Slipstream, against the backdrop of the post-Borg invasion recovery.

With that in mind, and regardless of the initial intention of TPTB, I also group (in my personal continuity) ASD, Losing the Peace and Indistinguishable from Magic, as parts of this arc, the rationale for which has been detailed in my OP.

Notice that none of these novels have the Typhon Pact branding. In addition, though it *does* have the TP branding, I don't consider StF as part of this arc, but rather a part of the Titan's overall arc and specifically the post-Destiny adventures - to be continued in Fallen Gods.

Whether Brinkmanship can be considered a part of the first arc, the start of the second, or something else entirely (like connecting to David Mack's upcoming trilogy?), remains, of course, to be seen.
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Old July 16 2012, 09:45 PM   #32
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

BTW are there other TNG novels scheduled between Brinkmanship and Cold Equations?

Maybe David Mack can hint a bit whether his trilogy is connected to Brinkmanship?
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Old July 17 2012, 01:44 PM   #33
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

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BTW are there other TNG novels scheduled between Brinkmanship and Cold Equations?

Maybe David Mack can hint a bit whether his trilogy is connected to Brinkmanship?
As far as I know, there's no time between the two. Brinkmanship is scheduled to come out in late September, while Mack's Cold Equations starts the next month in late October..
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Old July 17 2012, 06:40 PM   #34
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

As we're already in mid-July, shouldn't we get some teases, clues and tibbits from Mr. Mack?
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Old January 27 2013, 08:38 PM   #35
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Looking back on this thread from the perspective of having read Brinkmanship and the Cold Equations trilogy, I think that my OP regarding the Typhon Pact novels being an "arc" (or multi novel narrative) is even more valid now

As I see it, the major post-Destiny Trilogy TrekLit "arcs" go as follows:
  1. Rise of the Typhon Pact and its "Cold War" with the UFP – this arc begins with A Singular Destiny and Losing The Peace, both showing the overall astro-political land(star)scape in the aftermath of Destiny, while revealing the TP powers bit by bit. The narrative jumps a bit in time to the "main" TP novels – from Zero Sum Game to DRG3's DS9 duology – covering the battle for Slipstream, with "side stories" like the Romulan political angle, the inner workings of the various Pact members etc. Brinkmanship brings a nice "post-arc" tale, starring the Aventine (which starred in both ASD in the first branded TP novel - ZSG). In my OP I had originally included Indistinguishable from Magic in this arc, but it seems to have been mostly ignored by later TNG novels.
  2. Voyager's return to the Delta Quadrant and Project Full Circle – this arc is chronicled in Kirsten Beyer's 4 VOY novels to date, seemingly reaching a sort-of conclusion for the "first part of the Re-Relaunch".
  3. Titan's (mostly serial) adventures – as chronicled in Over a Torrent Sea, Synthesis, the Typhon Pact-branded Seize the Fire and Fallen Gods.
  4. The Cold Equations trilogy – encompassing major events in the lives of the TNG cast, this trilogy basically follows the above-mentioned "Typhon Pact arc", also featuring the next developments in the TP and the "next" struggle with the UFP, now involving Android, AI's etc.
  5. The Fall – I believe that this will be the "third arc" featuring the TP and its fall (IMO the title of this series concerns the Pact, though it's just conjecture at this point..).

Your thoughts / comments are, as always, very much appreciated
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Old January 28 2013, 06:49 PM   #36
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

um... no one?
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Old January 28 2013, 07:44 PM   #37
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

RonG wrote: View Post
um... no one?
Me! Me!

I hope the Typhon Pact won't fall so soon. There's much potential (in-universe and storytelling-wise) in the Pact, it would be a shame. Think of what could still happen! New powers joining, internal fracture, transformation into a new state or Federation... They haven't even met the Taurus Pact yet!

Well, counting a trilogy as an arc is... obvious? Imho, it was just a 'trilogy arc', in contrast to TP which is ongoing with no end in sight. As is Project Full Circle (real world perspective - no new book before 2014).

Another ongoing arc is the Andorian struggle, started with DS9-R and far from a conclusion.

An ongoing TNG storyline is the character development, slowly preparing us for the crew of 2387, whether it meshes with the comic (Data's return, Lt. Aneta Šmrhovแ, Joanna Faur, retiring Picard) or not (Data's return: how).
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Old January 28 2013, 07:55 PM   #38
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

RonG wrote: View Post
  1. The Fall – I believe that this will be the "third arc" featuring the TP and its fall (IMO the title of this series concerns the Pact, though it's just conjecture at this point..).
Given the origin of the series title this is unlikely I would think.



The miniseries was named "the fall miniseries", because it was scheduled for the season of fall, and it was only as we began batting around ideas, and someone said, "this is all turning pretty grim maybe we should call it The Fall, that's kind of ominous". We all thought it was a good laugh and a good joke. Then the editor said, "actually that's not bad, we'll go with that", and we're like, "what have we done?"
by David Mack in his Literary Treks interview, transcribed by 8of5 for thetrekcollective.com.
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Old January 28 2013, 09:09 PM   #39
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

The miniseries was named "the fall miniseries", because it was scheduled for the season of fall, and it was only as we began batting around ideas, and someone said, "this is all turning pretty grim maybe we should call it The Fall, that's kind of ominous". We all thought it was a good laugh and a good joke. Then the editor said, "actually that's not bad, we'll go with that", and we're like, "what have we done?"
This is why you should call it autumn. You would avoid that sickening sense of dread that comes with the ominous approach of the fall.
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Old January 29 2013, 04:18 AM   #40
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

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The miniseries was named "the fall miniseries", because it was scheduled for the season of fall, and it was only as we began batting around ideas, and someone said, "this is all turning pretty grim maybe we should call it The Fall, that's kind of ominous". We all thought it was a good laugh and a good joke. Then the editor said, "actually that's not bad, we'll go with that", and we're like, "what have we done?"
This is why you should call it autumn. You would avoid that sickening sense of dread that comes with the ominous approach of the fall.
Considering that it's a forerunner to the winter, I would say that sickening sense of dread is more than appropriate!
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Old January 29 2013, 08:53 AM   #41
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Markonian wrote: View Post
RonG wrote: View Post
um... no one?
Well, counting a trilogy as an arc is... obvious? Imho, it was just a 'trilogy arc', in contrast to TP which is ongoing with no end in sight. As is Project Full Circle (real world perspective - no new book before 2014).
Cold Equations, IMO, was an arc centered on AI, using the ongoing TNG cast and the Typhon Pact as backdrop. In the "Typhon Pact arc" detailed (IMO) in ASD through Brinkmanship, the Pact is in the front (after using the post-Destiny landscape as a forerunner theme)

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RonG wrote: View Post
  1. The Fall – I believe that this will be the "third arc" featuring the TP and its fall (IMO the title of this series concerns the Pact, though it's just conjecture at this point..).
Given the origin of the series title this is unlikely I would think.



The miniseries was named "the fall miniseries", because it was scheduled for the season of fall, and it was only as we began batting around ideas, and someone said, "this is all turning pretty grim maybe we should call it The Fall, that's kind of ominous". We all thought it was a good laugh and a good joke. Then the editor said, "actually that's not bad, we'll go with that", and we're like, "what have we done?"
by David Mack in his Literary Treks interview, transcribed by 8of5 for thetrekcollective.com.
Well, that's the first I've heard of this , but having an ominous tiutle like The Fall would have been quite a callback to the back pages of ASD, when it was written that "2010 - the Typhon Pact will rise".. oh well
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Old February 19 2013, 03:10 PM   #42
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

By chance, does DRG3 mention Nog's rank in either one of these books? I'm pretty sure he was a Lieutenant Commander in IFM. Just curious if this was carried over or not. We don't want another Taurik on our hands
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Old March 3 2013, 09:46 PM   #43
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Markonian wrote: View Post
RonG wrote: View Post
um... no one?
Me! Me!

I hope the Typhon Pact won't fall so soon. There's much potential (in-universe and storytelling-wise) in the Pact, it would be a shame. Think of what could still happen! New powers joining, internal fracture, transformation into a new state or Federation... They haven't even met the Taurus Pact yet!

Well, counting a trilogy as an arc is... obvious? Imho, it was just a 'trilogy arc', in contrast to TP which is ongoing with no end in sight. As is Project Full Circle (real world perspective - no new book before 2014).

Another ongoing arc is the Andorian struggle, started with DS9-R and far from a conclusion.

An ongoing TNG storyline is the character development, slowly preparing us for the crew of 2387, whether it meshes with the comic (Data's return, Lt. Aneta Šmrhovแ, Joanna Faur, retiring Picard) or not (Data's return: how).
Maybe, but what is left at this point but a war to the Death between Federation and the Typhon Pact?
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Old March 3 2013, 10:00 PM   #44
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Marcus Porcius Cato wrote: View Post
Markonian wrote: View Post
RonG wrote: View Post
um... no one?
Me! Me!

I hope the Typhon Pact won't fall so soon. There's much potential (in-universe and storytelling-wise) in the Pact, it would be a shame. Think of what could still happen! New powers joining, internal fracture, transformation into a new state or Federation... They haven't even met the Taurus Pact yet!

Well, counting a trilogy as an arc is... obvious? Imho, it was just a 'trilogy arc', in contrast to TP which is ongoing with no end in sight. As is Project Full Circle (real world perspective - no new book before 2014).

Another ongoing arc is the Andorian struggle, started with DS9-R and far from a conclusion.

An ongoing TNG storyline is the character development, slowly preparing us for the crew of 2387, whether it meshes with the comic (Data's return, Lt. Aneta Šmrhovแ, Joanna Faur, retiring Picard) or not (Data's return: how).
Maybe, but what is left at this point but a war to the Death between Federation and the Typhon Pact?
What makes you think a war would be on the table at this point seeing as a decent chunk of the anti-federation Pact members have probably blown what influence they might have due to their grand schemes blowing up in their faces.
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Old March 3 2013, 10:02 PM   #45
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Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Marcus Porcius Cato wrote: View Post
Maybe, but what is left at this point but a war to the Death between Federation and the Typhon Pact?
Star Trek has very rarely been about "war to the death." Indeed, even in its most seemingly intractable military conflicts -- the Dominion War, the Xindi conflict, the Borg Invasion in the novels -- the ultimate resolution has usually turned out to be an act of peacemaking rather than destruction (although only half credit goes to the Xindi conflict, since they only made peace with the mammalian factions).

If anything, what we're seeing in the books has never been a strict Pact-vs.-Federation dynamic -- it's been more of a competition among the Pact's own members, some hardline and some moderate. And rather than uniting to form a common front, those factions have only become more divided in recent books, with the Romulans and Gorn becoming friendlier to the Federation than they are toward their own fellow Pact members.
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