A country without Money how it's work?

[JarodRussell]

hux wrote:

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but wait, that means someone actually wants to be a waiter??

Actually, yes.

I think your cynicism stands in your way here.

[hux]

JarodRussell wrote:

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Actually, yes.

I think your cynicism stands in your way here.

so you could travel through the stars, join star fleet, write a holo novel, explore the ruins of blah blah three, anything you want....and you choose to be a waiter

hmm, i think your gullability stands in yours

[JarodRussell]

hux wrote:

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so you could travel through the stars, join star fleet, write a holo novel, explore the ruins of blah blah three, anything you want....and you choose to be a waiter

hmm, i think your gullability stands in yours

Yes, why not?

Besides, joining Starfleet isn't that easy.
Writing a holonovel... just because you can do it doesn't mean you're good at it, just look at the fan fiction section here.

So, to be cynical like you, even if you don't have to earn money, you can suck so much at everything else that the only thing that's left is being a waiter.

[Star Wolf]

JarodRussell wrote:

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Yes, why not?

Besides, joining Starfleet isn't that easy.
Writing a holonovel... just because you can do it doesn't mean you're good at it, just look at the fan fiction section here.

Just like here it doesn't matter if its good since your next bowl of soup doesn't depend upon other people buying it. No money also means anyone can build a ship, maybe gun control means some mercenary Ferengi will take it from you but you can run arong in your private Runabout like Captain (rerired) Scott

[JarodRussell]

Star Wolf wrote:

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No money also means anyone can build a ship

No money suddenly equals infinite knowledge and skill?

[Star Wolf]

why do you need knowledge just as there is the free better himself waiter there s Jethro Gibbs building starships in his basement and pattern replicating computers.

[hux]

JarodRussell wrote:

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Writing a holonovel... just because you can do it doesn't mean you're good at it, just look at the fan fiction section here.

harsh

JarodRussell wrote:

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So, to be cynical like you, even if you don't have to earn money, you can suck so much at everything else that the only thing that's left is being a waiter.

but in a world like the one trek presents us, you don't have to be a waiter if you suck at everything....you could travel the planet having adventures because food, clothing and shelter are not something that you need to worry about in that world.....if you woke up tomorrow in a society where you could beam to any part of the world, never needed to worry about food, clothing, material possessions.......you're honestly telling me you'd stop and say.....no, i'll become a waiter instead......seriously!

JarodRussell wrote:

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No money suddenly equals infinite knowledge and skill?

No but it does mean you have nothing but free time to do anything you want.....so why be a waiter (for no money!!!!) when you could learn about engineering (or any other subject you like) at school....also for no money

[T'Girl]

JarodRussell wrote:

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Actually, yes.

Change it slightly, someone actually wants to consistently be a waiter?

Shows up every day that they're scheduled. Stays for the entire shift. Doesn't suddenly say "screw this" and walks out, never to return.

hux wrote:

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they need to be more consistent in the storytelling

Well to be fair, there's only a single line, in a single movie (First Contact) where a character comes right out and states "money doesn't exist."

And there's also a small smattering of don't use - don't carry - don't need money. But the bulk of Star Trek is actually pretty consistent about the Federation having some kind of value exchange going on.

[hux]

T'Girl wrote:

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Well to be fair, there's only a single line, in a single movie (First Contact) where a character comes right out and states "money doesn't exist."

off the top of my head

Voyage home
Gillian: Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd Century?
Kirk: Well, we don't.

Pretty sure they attempt to definitively suggest that money is obsolete in the 23rd century onwards on many an occasion.....though they later tried to pretend that what they meant was that money (actual notes and coins doesn't exist)....but yeah currency does (credits) but not ya know, money as you know it - that's not consistent with the initial premise but i guess it's consistent with the premise that money (notes and coins) no longer exist (though they are conveniently vague about the distinction)

[T'Girl]

hux wrote:

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off the top of my head

Voyage home
Gillian: Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd Century?

Don't I mention that?

[paudemge]

I think it is reasonable to assume that the federation doesn't use any physical currency, but other evidence suggests that they do in fact use "money" and that it is the motivation of some individuals even in the federation.

[hux]

T'Girl wrote:

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Don't I mention that?

yeah, i'm agreeing with you but i don't buy the idea that it was a simple misunderstanding of language which you seem to be suggesting - as far as i'm concerned, they blatantly sold us the premise that money is gone, finished, it doesn't exist and we have evolved beyond material things..............but then realised that this didn't add up so said, oh wait, yeah, currency does actually exist but what we meant to say was money as you know it (notes and coins) doesn't

and if that really was their sincere intention from the start then why bang on about money doesn't exist in so many episodes, films etc when a form of currency clearly did exist......as far as i'm concerned, they definitely tried to sell us that idea but then dropped it when they realised it just wasn't workable and lead to far too many contradictions/inconsistencies

so yeah....not consistent for me

[TheGoodNews]

hux wrote:

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When i watched TNG, i always wondered why there would be waiters? Picard tells the unfrozen people from earths past that in the future, people don't do things for material gain but instead they do things to better themselves so presumably everyone is doing what they want with their lives and there is no need for money...........but wait, that means someone actually wants to be a waiter?? what....because this betters them (as Picard claimed).....really!!.....i mean sure, running a star ship is a challenge but hey, waiting on him would be just as much of a challenge.....it sure would sir......bollocks!

Like in all societies.....the rich will always need someone to bring them their drinks....in Trek, they solve this by pretending it's what people want to do with their lives.....people want to bring Picard his drinks while he explores the unknown because ya know....it's a challenge .......when i see someone working an 8 hour shift in Tesco, i don't kid myself that they are doing it to better themselves or that they want to be there but for some reason Trek expects us to buy this

That's why i liked the Maquis....they were the first thing in Trek to suggest that this Utopian society was not all it was cracked up to be

Well, consider this:

"Certain jobs are regarded as so distasteful, that they are filled by a permanent rotation system in which almost everyone serves his turn; the most notable instance is work in the kitchen and dining room, such as cooking, dishwashing, and serving..." Melford Spiro - Kibbutz: Venture in Utopia

"In the absence of private property, and of money, it is obvious that the profit motive does not operate in this society." Melford Spiro - Kibbutz: Venture in Utopia.

Think of that guy in STAR TREK 2 vacuuming the floor in the background while Spock and Kirk are chatting. Who's to say he does that full time? Maybe it was just his turn that week to clean the floors?

Also, as I pointed out in the past, Revolutionary Spain abolished money but their were still waiters doing their jobs. George Orwell and others noted this.

"Foreigners who gave a tip had it politely returned with an explanation of why the practice corrupted both the giver and the receiver." The Spanish Civil War by A. Beevor.

[TheGoodNews]

hux wrote:

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.......when i see someone working an 8 hour shift in Tesco, i don't kid myself that they are doing it to better themselves or that they want to be there but for some reason Trek expects us to buy this

Also don't assume an 8 hour day is universal. Today in France people work 7hour days/35 hour weeks, in the Israeli kibbutzim people were working 6 hour days, and during the Spanish Revolution the workday was split between two people to alleviate unemployment.

And you do know how the 8 hour day came about? From the IWW (Industrial Workers of the World or Wobblies). They advocated for the 8-hour work day/5 day work week in place of the 12-hour work day/6 day work week. They originally wanted to reduce the work week even further.

"8 hours of labor! 8 hours of rest! 8 hours recreation!" [It was something along those lines]

"...we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, 'abolition of the wages system.'" - Preamble to the IWW.

"Give the worker the full product of his toil and his pension is assured." - 'Big Bill' Haywood (IWW Speaker).

[Edit_XYZ]

TheGoodNews wrote:

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Also, as I pointed out in the past, Revolutionary Spain abolished money but their were still waiters doing their jobs. George Orwell and others noted this.

"Foreigners who gave a tip had it politely returned with an explanation of why the practice corrupted both the giver and the receiver." The Spanish Civil War by A. Beevor.

That's why the regions under anarchist control needed to implement very soon a rationing system, yes?
Because the system was going so well. And not because they were running out of products/etc.

Feel good ideas and some superficial anecdotes change nothing to socialist systems (which is what you're proposing) failing to create wealth.
As said, socialism only works until you run out of other peoples' money (products/however you want to name resources).