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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old January 25 2013, 05:10 PM   #541
DarthTom
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Upon re-reading, I am going to retract that entire last post except the part about Occam's Razor. Most crackpots have strong faith and serious belief. Doesn't keep them from being out of touch with reality, as evidenced by the "Build the real Enterprise!" thread I'm engaged in at the other end of the dial. Therefore I cannot absolve the apostles and simultaneously condemn Von Daniken on that basis alone.

Still think he's a flake, though.
That's very true. There are individuals who post on this website who believe they will be traveling in their Star Ships at warp speed.

So who are the bigger nut-cakes - the one's that with conviction believe that Jesus brought a man back from death - the one's that believe that the US should fund the building of the Enterprise in orbit - or the one's who believe that aliens helped our ancient ancestors move 100 ton stones up mountainsides?
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Old January 25 2013, 05:42 PM   #542
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Given that choice, I'll say the Enterprise folks.
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Old January 25 2013, 07:08 PM   #543
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Given that choice, I'll say the Enterprise folks.
BTW, just to show you I'm not a total Von Daniken fruitcake myself - is there another season of Ancient Aliens this year? Because I think they've gone off the deep end with some of the speculation about pyramid power plants and all of the other far fetched bullshit in later episodes.

For me, it was interesting ponder how ancient people were able to perform seemingly miraculous engineering feats with basic and primitive tools and if it was possible they got some 'help,' or at least investigate how they might have accomplished that.

But when the series started to become absurd with other speculation I started to check out.

I don't know how many more ittirations they can go through without either becoming duplicative or outrageous or both.
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Old January 25 2013, 08:18 PM   #544
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Yeah, there's another season but it seems to air exclusively on H2, the History spinoff a lot of people don't get in their cable packages. Based on the ads I've seen on History the H2 episodes seem to be very Giorgio Tsoukalos heavy with him doing a lot of remote shooting at archaeological sites.
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Old January 25 2013, 08:25 PM   #545
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Re: Ancient Aliens

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
^ Basically, people have told dumber stories to a smaller audience and started major religions as a result. I have a feeling some time in the next 200 years there's going to be a bloody sectarian conflict between the Brotherhood of the Face and the Church of the Risen Spock.
^^^
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Old January 25 2013, 11:06 PM   #546
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Re: Ancient Aliens

DarthTom wrote: View Post
For me, it was interesting ponder how ancient people were able to perform seemingly miraculous engineering feats with basic and primitive tools and if it was possible they got some 'help,' or at least investigate how they might have accomplished that.
Maybe if they actually cared about and understood the engineering at those sites, sure. But they don't. It's 1 minute of "this baffles me and I don't understand how it was built, therefore noone could have built this" leading into 10 more minutes of "therefore aliens."

These people aren't archaeologists. They aren't anthropologists. Tsoukalos, for instance, has a degree in sports information and communications. Actual anthropological practices are ancillary when it comes to the ancient astronaut... idea.

Yes, idea. Its not even a hypothesis, much less a scientific theory.
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Old January 26 2013, 12:05 AM   #547
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
DarthTom wrote: View Post
For me, it was interesting ponder how ancient people were able to perform seemingly miraculous engineering feats with basic and primitive tools and if it was possible they got some 'help,' or at least investigate how they might have accomplished that.
Maybe if they actually cared about and understood the engineering at those sites, sure. But they don't. It's 1 minute of "this baffles me and I don't understand how it was built, therefore noone could have built this" leading into 10 more minutes of "therefore aliens."

These people aren't archaeologists. They aren't anthropologists. Tsoukalos, for instance, has a degree in sports information and communications. Actual anthropological practices are ancillary when it comes to the ancient astronaut... idea.

Yes, idea. Its not even a hypothesis, much less a scientific theory.
Fair enough. Do you find any archaeological site to be baffling how ancient people built without some kind of 'help' and.or quantum leap in technlocical ability based on understood technologies at the time?

Again, on a few occasions I think the series asks some interesting questions. But agreed the lionshare of the series is about nonesense.
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Old January 26 2013, 12:10 AM   #548
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Suffice it to say, any TV series that spends most of a one-hour program contemplating whether or not Albert Einstein was an extraterrestrial genetic experiment designed to increase human intelligence has its issues with being a scientifically sound show.
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Old January 26 2013, 06:24 AM   #549
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Re: Ancient Aliens

How for example did ancient people cut perfect right angles into rocks that require today diamond cutting technology to replicate the task?
Because the assertion itself is bullshit. You're falling into their con by not questioning the questions themselves.

Read.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostemp...k/cutting.html

DarthTom wrote: View Post
Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
DarthTom wrote: View Post
For me, it was interesting ponder how ancient people were able to perform seemingly miraculous engineering feats with basic and primitive tools and if it was possible they got some 'help,' or at least investigate how they might have accomplished that.
Maybe if they actually cared about and understood the engineering at those sites, sure. But they don't. It's 1 minute of "this baffles me and I don't understand how it was built, therefore noone could have built this" leading into 10 more minutes of "therefore aliens."

These people aren't archaeologists. They aren't anthropologists. Tsoukalos, for instance, has a degree in sports information and communications. Actual anthropological practices are ancillary when it comes to the ancient astronaut... idea.

Yes, idea. Its not even a hypothesis, much less a scientific theory.
Fair enough. Do you find any archaeological site to be baffling how ancient people built without some kind of 'help' and.or quantum leap in technlocical ability based on understood technologies at the time?

Again, on a few occasions I think the series asks some interesting questions. But agreed the lionshare of the series is about nonesense.
Read.

http://www.dumbassguide.info/blog.php?bid=87
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Old January 26 2013, 06:59 AM   #550
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Those links might make The Castellan's head implode.
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Old January 26 2013, 07:29 AM   #551
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Haw! That second link is priceless!

The next time Ancient Aliens brings up a "smoking gun", they should recognize they shot themselves in the foot with it.
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Old January 26 2013, 11:23 AM   #552
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Re: Ancient Aliens

DarthTom wrote: View Post
I don't know how many more ittirations they can go through without either becoming duplicative or outrageous or both.
It reached *that* stage in the pilot episode...
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Old January 26 2013, 09:35 PM   #553
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Re: Ancient Aliens

I am amused by how an outrageous claim will be made, later disproven, then dismissed to go onto the next outrageous claim.

The whole notion of moving enormous rocks that required alien intervention was debunked when scientists discovered enough evidence to understand how Stonehenge components were hauled around. Some enterprising guy came up with a very clever pulley and lever system to move rocks of the same size, weight, and proportion without any motorized assistance. Despite people living in a time considered primitive by our standards, there were some intensely impressive achievements of mathematical understanding made that enabled certain groups to accomplish feats that would leave most human beings today baffled in amazement.

But "Ancient Aliens" is such a fun and compelling alternative!


Frankly, unless there is truly some kind of "space folding" technique possible with the right amount of power and device orchestration, travel between worlds is sadly linear and VERY long term. Which means that considering any sentient aliens being able to visit us is just outright impossible. We're on the periphery of the Milky Way galaxy. There's far more activity going on near the core to keep sentient beings busy than to wander off into the vast void of multi-generational space time on a mostly doomed quest to see if there's anybody living out on the periphery. Also, considering the time and distance problem, the fact that our lives have been so brief on this planet, we're too far away for anybody to even realize that sentient life has formed here.
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Old January 28 2013, 01:28 AM   #554
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I am amused by how an outrageous claim will be made, later disproven, then dismissed to go onto the next outrageous claim.

The whole notion of moving enormous rocks that required alien intervention was debunked when scientists discovered enough evidence to understand how Stonehenge components were hauled around. Some enterprising guy came up with a very clever pulley and lever system to move rocks of the same size, weight, and proportion without any motorized assistance. Despite people living in a time considered primitive by our standards, there were some intensely impressive achievements of mathematical understanding made that enabled certain groups to accomplish feats that would leave most human beings today baffled in amazement.

But "Ancient Aliens" is such a fun and compelling alternative!


Frankly, unless there is truly some kind of "space folding" technique possible with the right amount of power and device orchestration, travel between worlds is sadly linear and VERY long term. Which means that considering any sentient aliens being able to visit us is just outright impossible. We're on the periphery of the Milky Way galaxy. There's far more activity going on near the core to keep sentient beings busy than to wander off into the vast void of multi-generational space time on a mostly doomed quest to see if there's anybody living out on the periphery. Also, considering the time and distance problem, the fact that our lives have been so brief on this planet, we're too far away for anybody to even realize that sentient life has formed here.
Part of the Fermi paradox suggests that there has been plenty of time without the need of light travel or breaking the laws of physics for aliens to have appeared to us. But yes, I think it's possible galactic center is just way more interesting..
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Old January 28 2013, 04:04 PM   #555
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Gary7 wrote: View Post
Frankly, unless there is truly some kind of "space folding" technique possible with the right amount of power and device orchestration, travel between worlds is sadly linear and VERY long term. Which means that considering any sentient aliens being able to visit us is just outright impossible. We're on the periphery of the Milky Way galaxy. There's far more activity going on near the core to keep sentient beings busy than to wander off into the vast void of multi-generational space time on a mostly doomed quest to see if there's anybody living out on the periphery. Also, considering the time and distance problem, the fact that our lives have been so brief on this planet, we're too far away for anybody to even realize that sentient life has formed here.
You make Star Trek fan boys cry when you say that interstellar travel is technologically unfeasible.
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