RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,621
Posts: 5,426,483
Members: 24,809
Currently online: 507
Newest member: down to earth

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 26 2013, 11:42 AM   #1
Infern0
Captain
 
Infern0's Avatar
 
M22 galaxy

In TNG: "Where no one has gone before, the traveller sends the Enterprise D over 2,000,700,000 light years to the M22 Galaxy

LaForge estimates it would take 300 years to get home, and that a subspace transmission would be recieved by starfleet in 51 years.

But in Voyager, they are sent a mere 70,000 light years by the caretaker, and say it would take 10 years to get home.

The Enterprise went over 28581 times as far as Voyager, so shouldn't a subspace message from Voyager have been recieved by starfleet in a couple of days at most? And shouldn't it only have taken a couple of weeks to get home?
Infern0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2013, 12:03 PM   #2
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: M22 galaxy

As stated by someone in another thread somewhere around here, and more poetically than I ever can, time in Star Trek is relative to the writer's needs.
__________________
Curly: If at first you don't succeed, keep on suckin' til you do succeed.
--Movie Maniacs (1936)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2013, 12:08 PM   #3
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: M22 galaxy

Nitpick: the galaxy in question is actually M33, or Triangulum, up to 3 million ly away (although Data's 2.7 million ly is an acceptable estimate as well, since the E-D was only said to have ended "on the far side" of M33, not necessarily meaning "through M33 and out the other side"). M22 would be a globular cluster within the Milky Way, just 10,000 ly away. So Picard is actually facing a journey just 38.5 times longer than Janeway.

In both the TNG episode and the VOY pilot, a central issue is that the distance would take X years to span "even at maximum velocity". In both cases, it is implied that it would be impossible to travel at maximum velocity in practice. We never get a clear quote for what the theoretical maximum velocity of the E-D or the Voyager might be, only conjectural datapoints about "cruise velocity" or "redline".

So Picard facing a travel time 4.2 times longer for a distance 38.5 times longer is by no means a major discrepancy. Perhaps the theoretical top speed of Picard's ship is simply nine times higher than Janeway's?

As for subspace message travel time, there's something fishy about that "51 years" thing to start with. It's not really 51 years - it's "51 years, 10 months, 19 weeks, 16 days -" which defies conventional logic because 19 weeks is longer than a month and 16 days is longer than a week. So it very much sounds as if Data is listing a range of possibilities: "51 years for condition X, 10 months for condition Y, 19 weeks for condition Z, 16 days for condition-" before Picard cuts him off in disgust. And since Picard indeed does that, it may well be that none of the conditions could ever be met in practice. VOY makes it pretty clear that subspace messages just plain don't carry all that far.

(Or perhaps they do travel across millions of ly - but only if there aren't galaxies and stars in between to disrupt the subspace landscape?)

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2013, 01:10 PM   #4
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: M22 galaxy

According to TOS: "That Which Survives" the Enterprise covered 1000 lightyears in 12 hours at warp 8.4. They would have made Voyager's journey in about a month. They also made it as far as the rim of the galaxy ("Were No Man...") and the centre twice ("Megas Tu" and STV, the latter explicitly launching from Earth)

Trek writers just pull the numbers out of thin air for time, distance and speed. It's speed of plot. They never use the charts or formulas in the technical manuals.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2013, 12:13 AM   #5
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: M22 galaxy

It's called plot speed.

We know from TMP that it'll take 4 days to get to Vulcan. Vulcan's Star being about 16ly from Earth. So ~4ly per day.

So it would take Voyager about 48 years at TMP speeds.

^but it all comes down to Plot Speed.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2013, 01:42 PM   #6
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: M22 galaxy

Well, it makes a lot of sense that long trips would have to be conducted at a lower average speed than short ones. Ships "tire" just like runners. Covering 100 m in ten seconds doesn't mean you could cover 100 km in ten thousand seconds or under three hours.

Four days to Vulcan in ST:TMP is a bit slow in terms of even the average TOS or TNG travel times, ignoring the outliers. Possibly Scotty was telling Spock how sorry he was that the ship was so tasked and damaged that it would take four full days to get the Vulcan back "home"?

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.