Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

[Set Harth]

CorporalCaptain wrote:

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I just meant that I suspect that Maul got some ideas from working for Sidious on how to pull it off, because it's such a similar idea to what Sidious was up to.

I'm just not sure how much Maul was told about Sidious' long-term planning before TPM happened. Judging from a source like Darth Plagueis, probably not much.

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah.

[JD]

Damn, I forgot this was on this morning.

[Mr. Adventure]

JD wrote:

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Damn, I forgot this was on this morning.

Repeats tomorrow.

[JD]

Yeah. I was already planning on watching the DC Nation shows tomorrow, so I'll just add this to the list.

[Saul]

Good episode. Lots happening in it again. I also thought the animation was a bit off but thought it's just me. I get the impression this arc will be the end of seeing Maul, Savage and Mandalore again.

[Mach5]

I didn't like it. In fact, I must admit I'm not liking season 5 at all. The show has gone astray, and it's becoming more and more a mess with each episode. It all started with the introduction of Savage Opress (Jesus, what a retarded name) in season 3, a completely unnecessary and uninteresting version of Darth Maul on steroids, brought in for a single purpose - shifting focus from Palpatine and Dooku in order to stretch out the show as much as possible. Yeah, because what we really need is more Sith. Pitty, because Ventress was truly a great character, which should have been explored more thoroughly.

Then there's the whole Darth Maul resurrection thing, stupendously contrived and goofy. You made the mistake of killing the guy off, now fucking live with it and commit to your creative choice! Changing your mind like this only makes you look like you're not taking any of it seriously.

Lastly, Darth Maul subduing the galactic crime lords in mere minutes without encountering any substantial resistance is stupidity on par with space pirates beaming aboard the NX-01 unnoticed, with a security team nowhere in sight.

This show used to be great, but it definitely doesn't feel like canon any more.

[CorporalCaptain]

Mach5 wrote:

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It all started with the introduction of Savage Opress (Jesus, what a retarded name) in season 3, a completely unnecessary and uninteresting version of Darth Maul on steroids, brought in for a single purpose - shifting focus from Palpatine and Dooku in order to stretch out the show as much as possible. Yeah, because what we really need is more Sith.

Then there's the whole Darth Maul resurrection thing, stupendously contrived and goofy. [I]You made the mistake of killing the guy off, now fucking live with it and commit to your creative choice! Changing your mind like this only makes you look like you're not taking any of it seriously.

Double Bingo.

Pitty, because Ventress was truly a great character, which should have been explored more thoroughly.

Agreed.

Also, I was hoping for more Kenobi/Ventress team-ups after they took on Maul and Opress together last season.

[Christopher]

Mach5 wrote:

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It all started with the introduction of Savage Opress (Jesus, what a retarded name)

Compared to what? This is a franchise that names its flyboy hero "Skywalker" (after almost calling him "Starkiller"), its rebellious loner "Solo," and its villains "Vader" and "Sidious" and "Maul" and "Plagueis." Silly character names have always been part of the franchise by design. I think many SW fans forget that the whole franchise was originally intended as a Flash Gordon pastiche and a tribute to the cheesy adventure serials of the 1940s. It's always been intended to be cartoony, fanciful, and corny, in the vein of its inspirations.

in season 3, a completely unnecessary and uninteresting version of Darth Maul on steroids, brought in for a single purpose - shifting focus from Palpatine and Dooku in order to stretch out the show as much as possible.

I suspect the purpose to using Maul was the same as the purpose to using Boba Fett -- because the character became inexplicably popular with fandom despite being so minor a character in the actual films. And he's certainly been far more impressive a character here than he ever was in the movie, thanks to Sam Witwer's superb vocal performance.

This show used to be great, but it definitely doesn't feel like canon any more.

Again, it's not as if the canon is consistently brilliant or plausible or anything. The canon gave us Ewoks and Jar-Jar, and a super-advanced space station with primitive trash compactors and a convenient "shoot here to blow up" exhaust port. The canon gave us romantic dialogue about sand getting in your boots, and a supposed heroine who died of a broken heart or something.

[Mach5]

Christopher wrote:

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Compared to what?

Compared to all these you mentioned. Skywalker is hardly silly. We have "sillier" (mind the quotation marks) names than that IRL. There's a table tennis superstar in China named Ma Long, which literally translates to "Horse Dragon". See my point?

"Grievous" and "Plagueis" is stupid, I give you that. Still, Savage Opress has a much more "trashier" ring to it, but I'm aware that this is subjective.

Christopher wrote:

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It's always been intended to be cartoony, fanciful, and corny, in the vein of its inspirations.

Sure it was, but there's a fine line between corny and trash, and Star Wars always managed to stay on the right side.

Christopher wrote:

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I suspect the purpose to using Maul was the same as the purpose to using Boba Fett -- because the character became inexplicably popular with fandom despite being so minor a character in the actual films. And he's certainly been far more impressive a character here than he ever was in the movie, thanks to Sam Witwer's superb vocal performance.

Sam Witwer being awesome has nothing to do with Maul's resurrection feeling contrived and unnecessary. Lucas made the whole fuss about making sure he was DEFINITELY done for.

That being said, I hope Boba stays dead in Episode VII.

And I think TPM did a great job at setting up Maul, but killing him off was a mistake. He should have been one of the main villains of the prequel trilogy, together with Palpatine and Dooku, who should have been introduced in Episode 1.

Christopher wrote:

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The canon gave us romantic dialogue about sand getting in your boots, and a supposed heroine who died of a broken heart or something.

Aw God, now you're just summoning Gaith.

[Christopher]

Mach5 wrote:

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Skywalker is hardly silly.

Maybe not to you, having grown up with it. Granted, I was only nine when Star Wars came out in '77, but I still found "Skywalker" to be kind of a goofy character name.

If you go back and watch the original film with an objective eye, it's clearly intended to be as much a playful deconstruction of the adventure-serial genre as an affectionate homage to it. It doesn't take itself very seriously. Luke and Han are bumbling their way through the rescue of the princess, the princess ends up taking over the rescue herself -- the whole reason it works is because it doesn't play these hoary old action tropes straight but makes them fresh by having more naturalistic, fallible characters stumbling through the whole thing and subverting cliches at every turn. The problem with modern SW is that it's lost sight of that original spirit of being the outsider subverting the genre -- much like Luke single-handedly tearing down the megalithic symbol of the authoritarian regime -- and has itself become the institution against which all others are measured. Both Lucas and his fans have come to take the whole thing too seriously, and forgotten what a light-hearted romp and affectionate parody it was originally meant to be.

"Grievous" and "Plagueis" is stupid, I give you that. Still, Savage Opress has a much more "trashier" ring to it, but I'm aware that this is subjective.

Don't get me wrong, I do think "Savage Oppress" is one of the weaker character names they've come up with. I just don't have very high expectations of SW in general, and I think it can be best appreciated without high expectations.

Sam Witwer being awesome has nothing to do with Maul's resurrection feeling contrived and unnecessary. Lucas made the whole fuss about making sure he was DEFINITELY done for.

Welcome to genre fiction. Many characters, going as far back as Sherlock Holmes, have been resurrected after authors tried to make sure they were "DEFINITELY done for." Heck, the first Dark Horse Comics miniseries back in 1991 resurrected Palpatine after what was clearly meant to be a conclusive demise in ROTJ.

Aw God, now you're just summoning Gaith.

I don't know what that means.

[billcosby]

Well I was hooked on this arc from the 2nd part because it had nothing to do with Plankton or Ahsoka's Fantastic Rebel Trainees, it was thrilling to see something interesting and exciting again.

I then realized, as another poster mentioned (and perhaps some of you also deduced ), that it became likely the arc would end with

Satine dying, because it would be the kind of attack on Obi Wan that Zombie-maul would relish

..

A friend referred me to these following spoilers... I was surprised to see that the speculation was in fact already cast in stone as there was a children's book published featuring the story from this arc. The information was posted on Wookieepedia recently.

"Satine would be ousted as the Duchess of Mandalore in 20 BBY when Pre Vizsla and the Death Watch, aided by Sith Lords Darth Maul and Savage Opress' Shadow Collective, took control of the planet. After Kenobi attempted to free her from imprisonment, she was killed by Darth Maul who wanted to take revenge on the Jedi Master."

And on the edit page discussion...
"Confirmed?

Has any of the information regarding the stuff on Mandalore that will appear on The Clone Wars Season 5 yet been confirmed to happen? Or has someone been very creative and thought this was the Fan Wikia? ~~ Haou1987 January 8, 2013, 11:55 ~~

• The information, particularly the stuff in the infobox, is sourced to Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy, which adapts "Revival" as well as the upcoming episodes "Eminence," "Shades of Reason," and "The Lawless." CC7567 (talk) 18:55, January 8, 2013 (UTC)
  • Can't believe they actually do that, they spoil a great deal of things thanks to that... ~~Haou1987, January 8, 2013, 21:4"

It makes sense that this would happen. The seething hate for Kenobi by Maul should manifest itself in something like this.

[Mach5]

Christopher wrote:

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Maybe not to you, having grown up with it. Granted, I was only nine when Star Wars came out in '77, but I still found "Skywalker" to be kind of a goofy character name.

It's not about having grown up with it, it's about the fact that I'm used to hearing freakier names in real life. My English teacher at the university had a first name more ridiculous than most SW characters (I'm not gonna post it here, but trust me, I'm not making it up).

Christopher wrote:

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Don't get me wrong, I do think "Savage Oppress" is one of the weaker character names they've come up with. I just don't have very high expectations of SW in general, and I think it can be best appreciated without high expectations.

I couldn't agree more. This is why I never hated TMP. As much as I acknowledge its flaws, I enjoyed it for what it was because I never expected it to be an outstanding piece of cinema, let alone the second coming so many were praying for.

Christopher wrote:

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Many characters, going as far back as Sherlock Holmes, have been resurrected after authors tried to make sure they were "DEFINITELY done for."

Sherlock Holmes might not be the best of examples because A.C. Doyle always considered himself a serious author and thought these stories, which he wrote for money and money alone, were beneath him. He killed Holmes off to free himself of him, but ended up resurrecting him after being offered an obscene amount of money to do so.

Christopher wrote:

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I don't know what that means.

Lucky you.

[Stephen!]

Mach5 wrote:

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Then there's the whole Darth Maul resurrection thing, stupendously contrived and goofy.

Not necessarily. It's said that Maul's resurrection has larger implications that have yet to be revealed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...P6HUfwU#t=133s

[CorporalCaptain]

Stephen! wrote:

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Not necessarily. It's said that Maul's resurrection has larger implications that have yet to be revealed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...P6HUfwU#t=133s

I'm with Mach5 on this. What we've seen to date doesn't make the resurrection any less contrived. If there's some major pay-off that justifies everything, they should really be getting around to it.