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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 25 2013, 02:51 PM   #16
SnowboredShipCapt'n
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Redfern wrote: View Post
Now somebody should "'Shop" a pair of silicone implants onto Nomad's casing and caption the image to read, "Falsies! Falsies!!!"

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old January 25 2013, 03:08 PM   #17
Redfern
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Ooh! Yes! Even better! Great idea!

Sincerely,

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Old January 25 2013, 03:46 PM   #18
Cap'n Claus
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Mister Atoz wrote: View Post
boobatuba wrote: View Post
BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
^
Perhaps, but choosing to make this change is a bit of an intrusion by the "restorationist" into the role of the writer or director, because altering the subject of the eyeline-match shot alters the narrative, however slightly.
A bit of an intrusion, sure. I'll agree with that completely.

A "mistake"? No, I won't go that far.
Hmmm, interesting discussion! Well, you're entitled to your opinion (and your avatar) Boobatuba, but the remastering team had no right to so significantly change the meaning and impact of that cut. The music score from genius Sol Kaplan tells you exactly what's supposed to be happening -- WHAM!!!! In a microsecond we are whacked by the visual snapshot of the Enterprise at the maw of the cone.

The remastering denies the visual impact of that cut, and instead puts "video static" where there was none before!!! Call me a purist if you must, but that's some pretty major tampering.


regards

~ Mr Atoz
I agree, Atoz.

Sorry, but if you change something that was obvious and clear into something that requires fans to come up with a cover, then it's a mistake. Without showing the screen coming up and shorting out again, then it's just fanwank. The original version had the screen come to life and then Kirk saw the image to give him the reaction. There's no time for it to short out and come back. It would have come up too quickly the first time for Kirk to really process what he's seeing to generate that response.

About a year ago, I made a list on here of all the Doomsday Machine new effects "errors." This was one of the biggest. Others could be open to interpretation, but this one really isn't.

The other large bit was that I didn't feel the Enterprise would have been towing the Constellation at the start of Act II. There was no time; Kirk never gave the order, he hadn't even started to "get her ready." There was also no reaction to suddenly having the beam cut off; no mention of it nor any reaction to the sudden course change (since they fall over every time there's something big happening). Spock was maintaining distance, but was he dragging the Constellation along or moving off to distract the thing from the wrecked ship?
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Old January 25 2013, 05:04 PM   #19
Dalen Quaice
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Well this has been my complaint with the recent LA LA Land Soundtrack that was advertised as complete and perfect by the producers. When you change something, you create a unique work. If you edit, and the edit is not exactly where the original edit is placed, then it is not restoration -- it is alteration. To me, a purist, this is unacceptable.

Another episode that comes to mind is "Court Martial" -- The fade in of the scene where the trial has moved to the bridge of the ship is timed differently - there is a dissolve between the effects and the live action. The timing of the dissolve has been changed and I also think the audio may have been modified somewhat.

If you complain to CBS, they will send you a coupon off your next DVD/Blu purchase! LOL
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Old January 25 2013, 06:46 PM   #20
Mister Atoz
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Commander Quaice ~

Your point is well taken, however as a special fx guy myself, I am well aware that any effects with dissolves cannot be superimposed over old dissolves in the original negative. This happens all the time in the new versions and it's just something we have to accept as part of the remastering. Any new dissolves with effects are going to have to be shifted over to cover the old dissolves.

If the ORIGINAL original negative of the live action was still available, then the dissolves could be in their original positions. Unfortunately, nobody in 1967 could have imagined the archival value of such source footage, and it long since ended up in Desilu's (or Howard Anderson Cos') waste bin.

Unfortunate, but for me, the tradeoff was WELL worth it.

Ssosmcin, I would welcome an opportunity to view your last-year's thread on Doomsday effects errors.

best

~ Mr Atoz


Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
Well this has been my complaint with the recent LA LA Land Soundtrack that was advertised as complete and perfect by the producers. When you change something, you create a unique work. If you edit, and the edit is not exactly where the original edit is placed, then it is not restoration -- it is alteration. To me, a purist, this is unacceptable.

Another episode that comes to mind is "Court Martial" -- The fade in of the scene where the trial has moved to the bridge of the ship is timed differently - there is a dissolve between the effects and the live action. The timing of the dissolve has been changed and I also think the audio may have been modified somewhat.

If you complain to CBS, they will send you a coupon off your next DVD/Blu purchase! LOL
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Old January 25 2013, 08:20 PM   #21
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

plynch wrote: View Post
YARN wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
Having shots of the Enterprise look all cartoony when the rest of the show is live-action.
The nacelle cap problem. Ughh. They should have gone back and fixed all the shots.
Rear endcap ball inconsistency, or front spikes?
I've only seen two of the remastereds, but the front spikes in the "Mirror, Mirror" (R) ISS Enterprise were intentional.
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Old January 26 2013, 01:45 AM   #22
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Mister Atoz wrote: View Post

Ssosmcin, I would welcome an opportunity to view your last-year's thread on Doomsday effects errors.
That may have been this thread.
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Old January 26 2013, 09:29 AM   #23
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

The biggest TOS-R gaffe for me was in "The Paradise Syndrome," in which Miramanee specifically says Kirok should go to the temple and make the blue flame come out. For no good reason and in ignorance of the dialogue, they changed the beam to orange. That's a goof.

I understand the loss of live-action-to-fx film dissolves was unavoidable, and yes it's a loss.

On the other hand, there are cases in TOS-R where old mistakes are corrected. For instance, in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," Chekov looks at the main viewscreen and says "I think that may be a Star Fleet shuttlecraft." In the original version, the fx shot was a close-up, so obviously a shuttlecraft that Chekov's line makes no sense. In the TOS-R version, the craft is shown from a distance.

I've seen several cases in the original where they simply didn't have an fx shot that was just right for the dialogue, and the TOS-R version took care of it. I just can't recall them specifically. But they're there.
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Old January 26 2013, 09:38 AM   #24
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Didn't the remastered "Arena" add a Gorn ship? And an Orion ship for "Journey to Babel"? I think Memory Alpha mentioned it. And an Antares for "Charlie X".
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Old January 26 2013, 04:02 PM   #25
Warped9
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

plynch wrote: View Post
Having shots of the Enterprise look all cartoony when the rest of the show is live-action.
jayrath wrote: View Post
Calling it "remastering" in the first place. Remastering is reorganizing existing elements, not introducing new material.
Yes and yes.

To which I would add drastically changing ship designs and other things to look more contemporary. In particular I'm thinking of the blinking Gorn, the awful hull plating on the Romulan warbird in "Balance Of Terror," Kara's spaceship in "Spock's Brain," the Tholian ships in "The Tholian Web" and the shitty energy barrier in WNMHGB. I also don't think the "new" opening shot of the Enterprise in "The Cage" is as dramatic as the original. They also lost a few iconic shots I really liked.

There are a host of other things, but it all adds up to me refusing to buy TOS-R and stick with my dvd box sets.

Maybe one day TOS will be enhanced yet again only this time with a vision of making it all look like it's all of the same show while still featuring upgraded f/x.
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Old January 26 2013, 08:36 PM   #26
Grant
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
The biggest TOS-R gaffe for me was in "The Paradise Syndrome," in which Miramanee specifically says Kirok should go to the temple and make the blue flame come out. For no good reason and in ignorance of the dialogue, they changed the beam to orange. That's a goof.

I understand the loss of live-action-to-fx film dissolves was unavoidable, and yes it's a loss.

On the other hand, there are cases in TOS-R where old mistakes are corrected. For instance, in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," Chekov looks at the main viewscreen and says "I think that may be a Star Fleet shuttlecraft." In the original version, the fx shot was a close-up, so obviously a shuttlecraft that Chekov's line makes no sense. In the TOS-R version, the craft is shown from a distance.

I've seen several cases in the original where they simply didn't have an fx shot that was just right for the dialogue, and the TOS-R version took care of it. I just can't recall them specifically. But they're there.

They fixed the 'blue-flame' error on the Blu-rays
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Old January 26 2013, 08:43 PM   #27
Grant
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Kind of funny how we're arguing over a fraction of a second error of static vs a shot of the ship, but all the errors that were corrected are ignored.

In Charlie X Kirk says, "we are coming alongside cargo vessel Antares."


--but there is NO SHIP in the shot.

The remastered adds the ship so the line now makes sense.

In "Is There In Truth NO Beauty" they clearly state they are meeting a Medusan vessel to transfer Kollos and Miranda

--but at the end there is no ship in sight!! They are orbiting a planet instead.

The remasterd fixes that. And Scotty's lack of a phaser beam in Naked Time, etc, etc

But hey let's nitpick the Remastered because we don't the remastered.
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Old January 26 2013, 11:08 PM   #28
Mister Atoz
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Grant wrote: View Post
Kind of funny how we're arguing over a fraction of a second error of static vs a shot of the ship, but all the errors that were corrected are ignored.

In Charlie X Kirk says, "we are coming alongside cargo vessel Antares."


--but there is NO SHIP in the shot.

The remastered adds the ship so the line now makes sense.

In "Is There In Truth NO Beauty" they clearly state they are meeting a Medusan vessel to transfer Kollos and Miranda

--but at the end there is no ship in sight!! They are orbiting a planet instead.

The remasterd fixes that. And Scotty's lack of a phaser beam in Naked Time, etc, etc

But hey let's nitpick the Remastered because we don't the remastered.

Hey, that's a really good point. I love the remastering work 99 percent of the time. But it's the nature of the human mind to zero in on the imperfections. Can't help it!

If only Nomad could be as thankful for life's imperfections.

~ Mr Atoz
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Old January 26 2013, 11:47 PM   #29
Robert Comsol
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Warped9 wrote: View Post
There are a host of other things, but it all adds up to me refusing to buy TOS-R and stick with my dvd box sets.

Maybe one day TOS will be enhanced yet again only this time with a vision of making it all look like it's all of the same show while still featuring upgraded f/x.
I bought the TOS/TOS-R Blu-ray set but except for most of the enhanced matte paintings (passionate work in this department) I still do prefer the VFX effects of the original series.

Considering that there are so many beautiful VFX shots of the Enterprise in the original series (not to mention the VFX footage from the second pilot that never made it!) I, too, hope there'll be an upgrade - and only if to use second and third season original footage to replace the VFX footage of the pilot 11-footer throughout the regular series.

But please not another release in the original airdate order (who cares?!). IMHO, production order is the only one that makes sense and if CBS feels they need to be original they can go for the stardate order - and put "Day of the Dove" (stardate unknown) last.

Bob
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Old January 27 2013, 12:04 AM   #30
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Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

My favorite original, optically printed beauty shot was a long, slow close-up of the saucer section approaching camera, engines spinning along, repeated several times in the series. It's a shame if they didn't copy it.
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