Ancient Aliens

[CaptainDonovin]

YellowSubmarine wrote:

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If you tilt your head, it looks like Gérard Depardieu.

Skinny Gérard or the current form of him?

I have no problem with some of these ideas that the ancient alien folks or forbidden archeology people come up with. Some of their ideas sound plausible, especially the ideas that this angel or that angel decended from the sky. To me that sounds like they came from space, unless there is an unseen realm that exists. There are a lot of unanswered questions about human history & ancient civilizations. That doesn't mean aliens or time travelers are the answer but you never know.

I just want someone to get Giorgio a comb.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

DarthTom wrote:

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Meh. Is it any less "moronic," than a 'god,' depositing his DNA into a middle eastern Jewish woman named Mary - having a child who at the age of 33 has a grand epiphany that he's also a god/man who goes onto magically create food out of thin air, make water into wine, and even raise a man from death.?

If Von Daniken is a 'crack pot,' so were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Did you have a point, or do you just consider yourself clever?

[Crazy Eddie]

^ Basically, people have told dumber stories to a smaller audience and started major religions as a result. I have a feeling some time in the next 200 years there's going to be a bloody sectarian conflict between the Brotherhood of the Face and the Church of the Risen Spock.

[DarthTom]

My Name Is Legion wrote:

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Did you have a point, or do you just consider yourself clever?

Well yes actually Dennis. My larger point is that while I think most of Von Dankien's theories are way, "around the bend," I think he asks some interesting questions despite mostly clouds of nonsense.

How for example did some ancient cultures move 100 ton stones up mountain sides in South America without even the aide of pulley technology. How for example did ancient people cut perfect right angles into rocks that require today diamond cutting technology to replicate the task?

If his theories do nothing more than get people to look into how it might have been done without alien help - that ain't necessarily so bad.

The series also has an interesting way of posing the ancient aliens theories by asking a series of questions that try to lead the reader/viewer to a predetermined set of conclusions.

At least that approach is more intellectually honest than the way the bible does so - which presents the entire Jewish/Christian faith [including the laundry list of miracles] as 100% fact - of which more than 1 billion people on this planet drink the kool-aid of - without question.

[sojourner]

Actually, I think the Ancient Aliens method is more dishonest than the Bible method. The bible never pretends to be scientific.

[Crazy Eddie]

sojourner wrote:

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Actually, I think the Ancient Aliens method is more dishonest than the Bible method. The bible never pretends to be scientific.

I'm sure it WOULD have if science had existed back then.

[Silvercrest]

DarthTom wrote:

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Meh. Is it any less "moronic," than a 'god,' depositing his DNA into a middle eastern Jewish woman named Mary - having a child who at the age of 33 has a grand epiphany that he's also a god/man who goes onto magically create food out of thin air, make water into wine, and even raise a man from death.?

If Von Daniken is a 'crack pot,' so were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

I believe there are historical records (non-Biblical) showing a lot of those guys died for their faith. They were also defending something that they were a personal witness to.

Even if you don't choose to believe what they did, you'll agree that Von Daniken is unlikely to die for his claims and doesn't claim (as far as I know) to have witnessed them. There is a difference.

[DarthTom]

sojourner wrote:

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Actually, I think the Ancient Aliens method is more dishonest than the Bible method. The bible never pretends to be scientific.

You think they try to be scientific? I've always taken their docu-entertainment as more as Van Daniken et al always prefacing there theories with something like:

"So I asked the question, how could ancient peoples XX who possessed just rocks and chisels move 100 ton boulders up mountains without help or at least some sort of pulley technoloy and how could they fuse the boulders together at perfect right angels without any separation between the stones without some sort or torch technology?" etc. etc.

In other words, it's leading for sure and they suggest that someone with far superior technology [like the aliens] be the one's responsible or at least who lends aide but unlike the bible they don't present it as fact but try to get the viewer to buy into what they consider to be facts.

Moreover, ask your average Christian if he/she believes that Jesus Christ made water into wine, fed more than 1000 with his magical abilities, and died and came back to life and ask them what "facts," that is based on - and most of the time the answer is, because the bible says so.

[DarthTom]

Silvercrest wrote:

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Even if you don't choose to believe what they did, you'll agree that Von Daniken is unlikely to die for his claims and doesn't claim (as far as I know) to have witnessed them. There is a difference.

Whether Von Daniken is willing to die or not for his theories is irrelevant IMO as to whether they have any basis in fact or not. IMO Van Daniken's 'theories,' have more credability than the one's recounted in the bible - especially the miracles.

No third party objective person/government recorded any historical documents that 3rd hand verifies any of the stories in the bible. Even Jesus real existence itself isn't provable other than some vague references by the Romans.

At least in Van Daniken's case - he can point to a real stone, sitting on a real mountain - carbon dated 5,000 years old and ask the question, how the fuck did they do that with primitive tools.

[Lonemagpie]

DarthTom wrote:

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At least in Van Daniken's case - he can point to a real stone, sitting on a real mountain - carbon dated 5,000 years old and ask the question, how the fuck did they do that with primitive tools.

Sadly he's also a guy who could ask stupid questions like (in Gold Of The Gods, IIRC) "how could these primitives have so accurately carved the shape of a skeleton on a stone centuries before X Ray machines were invented, unless aliens brought X Ray technology?"

Someone that fucking stupid - or who thinks of his audience as that fucking stupid - deserves no respect.

[Lonemagpie]

Oh, I see the Ancient Aliens series has recruited Franklin Ruehl this season - he's another looney (and I speak from personal experience here - I could tell you a story or two) but, unlike Von Daniken, at least actually seems to believe it himself and thought about it to some degree (again, I'm talking from experience), whereas Von Daniken has always came over as con man out for a quick buck form people he looks down upon as gullible.

[Silvercrest]

DarthTom wrote:

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Whether Von Daniken is willing to die or not for his theories is irrelevant IMO as to whether they have any basis in fact or not.

Okay, but that's not what I said. I'm not addressing how credible the theory is. I'm addressing peoples' respective levels of conviction and the point of treating everyone as an equal crackpot.

The Biblical folks saw something that they believed in so strongly they were willing to die for it. Whether history proves that it was a weather balloon, the planet Venus, mass hypnosis, etc. is irrelevant-- we're talking strong faith and serious belief. Based on eyewitness testimony.

Von Daniken has cranked out a series of unprovable assertions and vague speculation. His science is laughable and his research is sloppy. He ignores a lot of available evidence (or cherry-picks it for things to things to prop up his theories). He also takes credit for ideas that aren't his own.

Who's a crackpot?

Lonemagpie wrote:

Sadly he's also a guy who could ask stupid questions like (in Gold Of The Gods, IIRC) "how could these primitives have so accurately carved the shape of a skeleton on a stone centuries before X Ray machines were invented, unless aliens brought X Ray technology?"

If he's so unclear on the use of sharp instruments, he should apply Occam's Razor once in a while.

[Silvercrest]

Upon re-reading, I am going to retract that entire last post except the part about Occam's Razor. Most crackpots have strong faith and serious belief. Doesn't keep them from being out of touch with reality, as evidenced by the "Build the real Enterprise!" thread I'm engaged in at the other end of the dial. Therefore I cannot absolve the apostles and simultaneously condemn Von Daniken on that basis alone.

Still think he's a flake, though.

[RAMA]

Herkimer Jitty wrote:

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You don't say?

I meant with intelligence enough: like humans, and in the near-term. Although I'm sure we may want to "take" some animals with us.

[Lonemagpie]

Silvercrest wrote:

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If he's so unclear on the use of sharp instruments, he should apply Occam's Razor once in a while.

Apparently there are no graveyards in Von Daniken-land...