NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

[Use of Time]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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Except that the people actually on trial essential conceded that they killed people, they argued self-defense. That almost always comes down to the credibility of the witnesses. What possible obstruction of justice could have resulted in a finding of self-defense?

Lewis admitted he gave misleading statements to police the morning after the killings. He acknowledged he misled them and plead guilty. I'm not questioning the fact that his friends worked in self defense. I've never called him a murderer. I'm just saying misleading the police in a double homicide is not a sign of maturity or some remarkable story of courage.

[gblews]

Yoda wrote:

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Honestly, even if he was totally innocent of any wrongdoing in that incident he's still an insufferable tool .

That idiotic dance alone is enough to make me root against them.

Go 9ers.

[Caligula]

So, kicking a man in the balls is a lesser offense than not pulling your socks up. Got it. Or does that only apply if you're Tom Brady? What's this one gonna be called... the "Slide Rule"?

[tighr]

Use of Time wrote:

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I'm just saying misleading the police in a double homicide is not a sign of maturity or some remarkable story of courage.

And it was 13 years ago, and Ray Lewis has done many great and charitable things since then. Not sure what you want, his head on a pike or something?

[Use of Time]

tighr wrote:

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And it was 13 years ago, and Ray Lewis has done many great and charitable things since then. Not sure what you want, his head on a pike or something?

You have to realize how empty those words you just wrote might seem to the victims family right?

If you read what I said you would see that I am not calling him a murderer, I'm just saying there are much better choices for leadership and role models than Ray Lewis.

Do I want his head on a pike? No, stop trying to put words in my mouth.

[tighr]

You just seem to be on some kind of rampage against the man. He plead guilty to obstruction; he cooperated with the prosecution and testified against his friends, those who admitted to killing but in self-defense; since then, Ray Lewis has not gotten into further trouble and by all examples has actually been a great role model who has learned from his mistakes.

I never said that those things take away from the victim's families; of course they still suffered a loss. But given the choice of A) Ray Lewis continuing to be a thug, and B) Ray Lewis changing into a positive influence in underprivileged youth's lives so they don't make the same mistakes he did? I guarantee the victim's families would say they'd rather Ray Lewis be that positive influence. Nothing will bring a victim back from the dead, but that doesn't mean the world can't be a better place.

[Use of Time]

tighr wrote:

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You just seem to be on some kind of rampage against the man. He plead guilty to obstruction; he cooperated with the prosecution and testified against his friends, those who admitted to killing but in self-defense; since then, Ray Lewis has not gotten into further trouble and by all examples has actually been a great role model who has learned from his mistakes.

I never said that those things take away from the victim's families; of course they still suffered a loss. But given the choice of A) Ray Lewis continuing to be a thug, and B) Ray Lewis changing into a positive influence in underprivileged youth's lives so they don't make the same mistakes he did? I guarantee the victim's families would say they'd rather Ray Lewis be that positive influence. Nothing will bring a victim back from the dead, but that doesn't mean the world can't be a better place.

Why do you keep trying to put words into my mouth. There is no rampage, quit being dramatic. Has Ray Lewis stayed out of trouble since then? Yep. It's just that you referenced 13 years as some sort of cleanser when two people were killed and nobody went to jail. As far as the victim's family goes...here is what they have to say and it's not good.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-2000/1566198/

[tighr]

Use of Time wrote:

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It's just that you referenced 13 years as some sort of cleanser when two people were killed and nobody went to jail.

I mentioned "13 years" in response to your claim that Lewis has not demonstrated maturity nor courage. He has surely grown since then.

I'll let you have the last word on the subject, we have football to discuss.

[Use of Time]

tighr wrote:

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I mentioned "13 years" in response to your claim that Lewis has not demonstrated maturity nor courage. He has surely grown since then.

I'll let you have the last word on the subject, we have football to discuss.

Gotcha, for the record I don't hate Ray Lewis. This whole discussion stemmed from that article about bringing up the past so that's what I was focusing on. It kind of came off as an excuse and I was just sharing my feelings on that incident. I'm all for second chances and Ray has been clean during a career that will be nearly impossible for anyone to else to duplicate. After that incident Ray had two choices. Either continue to associate with people that would have eventually ruined his life or make big lifestyle choices and embrace the tremendous responsibility that comes with being the face of a franchise. Ray made the right choice and should be commended for that.

[Alidar Jarok]

Use of Time wrote:

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Lewis admitted he gave misleading statements to police the morning after the killings. He acknowledged he misled them and plead guilty. I'm not questioning the fact that his friends worked in self defense. I've never called him a murderer. I'm just saying misleading the police in a double homicide is not a sign of maturity or some remarkable story of courage.

And then he pled guilty to doing exactly that. I agree completely that misleading the police is not a sign of maturity. However, taking responsibility for misleading the police and then turning your life around to start doing good things in the community is. It's also possible to mature in 13 years.

You say you never called him a murderer, but you start talking about the victims's families. Victims of his obstruction? Did you want him to be sentenced to murder because he obstructed justice or do you want him sentenced to obstruction of justice for obstruction of justice?

[Use of Time]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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And then he pled guilty to doing exactly that. I agree completely that misleading the police is not a sign of maturity. However, taking responsibility for misleading the police and then turning your life around to start doing good things in the community is. It's also possible to mature in 13 years.

You say you never called him a murderer, but you start talking about the victims's families. Victims of his obstruction? Did you want him to be sentenced to murder because he obstructed justice or do you want him sentenced to obstruction of justice for obstruction of justice?

I thought my last statement was enough to put the matter to rest. Is that not enough for you? I have no idea what you are even trying to say in your second paragraph. I don't "want" anything but for some people to have a little perspective when it comes to Lewis. That's it. I don't understand why it matters so much to you what I think of him. The guy is going to be a a first ballot Hall of Famer and I will be subjected to watching him as an ESPN analyst.

[Alidar Jarok]

Having perspective on Lewis is all I want too, which is why I posted the link in the first place. Since many people call him a murderer, it's worth pointing out the actual evidence.

[poundpuppy29]

I just wanted to say the Pats lost fair & square I am rooting for the 49ners because my cousin is from SF and he is a sports fan the other one in my family so it would make him happy but I am not sure if I will even watch I really don't care either way & the commercials used to be funny & interesting but they really haven't been in the past couple of years.

[Roger Wilco]

Ray Lewis: Doping accusations are a trick of the devil!"

hahaha, that's a good one, I don't think I've heard that before.

[1001001]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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Having perspective on Lewis is all I want too, which is why I posted the link in the first place. Since many people call him a murderer, it's worth pointing out the actual evidence.

I blame the deer antler spray.

Probably what got Dan Marino as well.