Abrams: Expect To Cry - Page 6

Anji · January 24 2013, 03:39 AM

Before everybody's shorts get in a knot, let's reserve judgement after viewing the actual film.

We've been through this before with the rumours prior to TWOK. They'll say anything to get our butts in those movie seats.

Grup · January 24 2013, 03:57 AM

King Daniel wrote:

Grup wrote:

I don't know about anybody else, but I was stirred by the 'signing off' at the end of The Undiscovered Country.

I didn't believe for a second that it was really the end. And indeed, most of the characters popped up again here and there in TNG and others. Chekov and Uhura were back as recently as a few years ago in the fan film Of Gods and Men!

At that very moment though, I assumed that there would be no more ensemble movies and/or cameo appearances by a cast of people I grew to know. So I was saddened to see Star Trek; as I knew it, end.

Grup · January 24 2013, 04:01 AM

I agree that it may be difficult to see these actors as 'our' Star Trek characters and feel the same emotions that we did with Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley etc. That being said, a good movie can still evoke emotion about a character. It just won't be as personal. IMO

Admiral Buzzkill · January 24 2013, 04:06 AM

"our" Star Trek characters?

What you mean "we?"

magarity · January 24 2013, 05:44 AM

I didn't see the need for the whole reboot concept for Star Trek in the first place. The gods all know there's enough continuity problems already. The adventures of young Kirk and friends could have been done without excessive wackiness like Spock's mini ship full of strawberry jam and blowing up Vulcan. I don't think an adventure together in the academy days in and of itself required such drastic changes.

Dale Sams · January 24 2013, 05:46 AM

My Name Is Legion wrote:

Shazam! wrote:

Yeah, but we know that Kirk and Spock etc are running around doing just fine in the Prime Universe...

No, they're not.

They got old, fat, and dull. Stuffy and boring. Kirk fell off a rickety bridge before delivering one of his bizarre line readings ("It was...fun") and croaking. Spock was last seen shuffling through a kind of aimless story about Romulus with a bunch of old guys and Denise Crosby wearing bumpy foam rubber heads. McCoy was wearing a garotte-like ascot for vanity's sake to hide his wattle, Scotty and Uhura were fumbling around with various unappealing menepausal sexual hijinks, Chekov had evolved from Bad Accent/Haircut to Bad Accent/Toupee and Sulu...who gives a fuck about Sulu?

They're not "running around," "doing fine," or being at all interesting. These new guys are a lot more fun now.

Uhm...what about "Oh my."???? Actually, I'm sure you know the story behind that line.

King Daniel Into Darkness · January 24 2013, 02:10 PM

Grup wrote:

King Daniel wrote:

Grup wrote:

I don't know about anybody else, but I was stirred by the 'signing off' at the end of The Undiscovered Country.

I didn't believe for a second that it was really the end. And indeed, most of the characters popped up again here and there in TNG and others. Chekov and Uhura were back as recently as a few years ago in the fan film Of Gods and Men!

At that very moment though, I assumed that there would be no more ensemble movies and/or cameo appearances by a cast of people I grew to know. So I was saddened to see Star Trek; as I knew it, end.

That is true. It took me ages to realize why, but I always felt there was something amiss about Kirk in Generations. I eventually realized it was the complete absence of Spock. Kirk without Spock there is just... half the punch.

DalekJim · January 24 2013, 02:13 PM

My Name Is Legion wrote:

I love Star Trek.

Star Trek fandom, I can take or leave.

Being one of the most regular posters on a Star Trek forum seems like a kinda baffling decision then?

King Daniel wrote:

That is true. It took me ages to realize why, but I always felt there was something amiss about Kirk in Generations. I eventually realized it was the complete absence of Spock. Kirk without Spock there is just... half the punch.

There's something amiss about Kirk in Generations because he's written like William Shatner, not Kirk, and is given minimal screentime before being abruptly killed by a bridge.

Jackson_Roykirk · January 24 2013, 03:00 PM

Grup wrote:

I agree that it may be difficult to see these actors as 'our' Star Trek characters and feel the same emotions that we did with Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley etc. That being said, a good movie can still evoke emotion about a character. It just won't be as personal. IMO

This is where I differ. I see Kirk/Spock/McCoy are characters -- characters who have a well-established set of character traits. In my mind, Kirk, Spock, et al. are NOT just TOS character they are characters that exist outside of TOS and belong to the greater agglomeration of simply "Star Trek" (of which AbramsTrek also belongs). Sure -- Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley portrayed those characters, but so do Pine/Quinto/Urban.

It's the character whom I feel emotionally connected to -- albeit the original actors did help shape that emotional connection somewhat. If an AbramsTrek character is written and portrayed with that proper set of character traits (an I mean the character traits that go beyond the TOS actor portrayals), then I can see that AbramsTrek character as being the same character, albeit a different version...

Therefore, that AbramsTrek character should still be able to evoke an emotional feeling. I'm not saying they automatically WILL did so -- the writers and actors need to deliver on their end. However, what I'm saying is that these characters have the same potential to evoke those emotions.

JarodRussell · January 24 2013, 03:07 PM

DalekJim wrote:

My Name Is Legion wrote:

I love Star Trek.

Star Trek fandom, I can take or leave.

Being one of the most regular posters on a Star Trek forum seems like a kinda baffling decision then?

King Daniel wrote:

That is true. It took me ages to realize why, but I always felt there was something amiss about Kirk in Generations. I eventually realized it was the complete absence of Spock. Kirk without Spock there is just... half the punch.

There's something amiss about Kirk in Generations because he's written like William Shatner, not Kirk, and is given minimal screentime before being abruptly killed by a bridge.

It's never a good idea to put a former main character on the sidelines. None of the various episodes with cameos were ever satisfying.
Nimoy Spock wasn't Spock in Trek 2009 either. Had he been killed off there as well, there'd be even greater bitching.

DalekJim · January 24 2013, 03:13 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Nimoy Spock wasn't Spock in Trek 2009 either. Had he been killed off there as well, there'd be even greater bitching.

I find that even Star Trek 2009 defenders agree older Spock's inclusion was confused and pointless.

"This aint your daddy's Star Trek! Except uh, here's your daddy's Spock. Isn't he awesome in comparison to the new guy?"

WHAT.

King Daniel Into Darkness · January 24 2013, 03:17 PM

I enjoyed his cameo very much

JarodRussell · January 24 2013, 03:18 PM

Old Spock didn't do anything (which could have been changed easily with a short rewrite), and he didn't have an arc. He started the problem, but he didn't solve it, and he was never active in the film, and he didn't grow even the slightest bit.

King Daniel Into Darkness · January 24 2013, 03:23 PM

That's because it was a 2-scene cameo!

Besides, wasn't getting Kirk back to the Enterprise and into command to stop Nero "solving it"? And after his epic faliure to save Romulus and Vulcan, isn't leading the new Vulcan colony his starting a path to redemption?

EnsignRicky · January 24 2013, 07:50 PM

I don't want destiny to be earned, heroes and villains to be born, innocents to die, and I sure as shit don't want to shed any tears.

I just want to watch Star Trek.

Why has that suddenly become so difficult this century?

January 24 2013, 03:39 AM	#76
Anji Rear Admiral Location: Assisting in the birth of baby Horta on Janus VI	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry Before everybody's shorts get in a knot, let's reserve judgement after viewing the actual film. We've been through this before with the rumours prior to TWOK. They'll say anything to get our butts in those movie seats. __________________ "You may be wrong, but you may be right." - Billy Joel

January 24 2013, 04:01 AM	#78
Grup Lieutenant Commander Location: PA	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry I agree that it may be difficult to see these actors as 'our' Star Trek characters and feel the same emotions that we did with Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley etc. That being said, a good movie can still evoke emotion about a character. It just won't be as personal. IMO

January 24 2013, 04:06 AM	#79
Admiral Buzzkill The Man Location: Defying Gravity	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry "our" Star Trek characters? What you mean "we?" __________________ I had steak and a loaded baked potato for dinner on Sunday. As a steak I enjoyed it a lot, but as macaroni and cheese I thought it was disappointing.

January 24 2013, 05:44 AM	#80
magarity Lieutenant Junior Grade	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry I didn't see the need for the whole reboot concept for Star Trek in the first place. The gods all know there's enough continuity problems already. The adventures of young Kirk and friends could have been done without excessive wackiness like Spock's mini ship full of strawberry jam and blowing up Vulcan. I don't think an adventure together in the academy days in and of itself required such drastic changes.

January 24 2013, 03:17 PM	#87
King Daniel Into Darkness Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry I enjoyed his cameo very much __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

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January 24 2013, 03:18 PM	#88
JarodRussell Vice Admiral	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry Old Spock didn't do anything (which could have been changed easily with a short rewrite), and he didn't have an arc. He started the problem, but he didn't solve it, and he was never active in the film, and he didn't grow even the slightest bit. __________________ lol l /\

January 24 2013, 03:23 PM	#89
King Daniel Into Darkness Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry That's because it was a 2-scene cameo! Besides, wasn't getting Kirk back to the Enterprise and into command to stop Nero "solving it"? And after his epic faliure to save Romulus and Vulcan, isn't leading the new Vulcan colony his starting a path to redemption? __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

January 24 2013, 07:50 PM	#90
EnsignRicky Commodore Location: Somewhere Far Beyond	Re: Abrams: Expect To Cry I don't want destiny to be earned, heroes and villains to be born, innocents to die, and I sure as shit don't want to shed any tears. I just want to watch Star Trek. Why has that suddenly become so difficult this century? __________________ Use Only As Directed