RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,843
Posts: 5,473,761
Members: 25,039
Currently online: 561
Newest member: hig4s

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Shatner Book Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Nov 20

Trek Original Series Slippers
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Hemsworth Is Sexiest Man Alive
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Trek Business Card Cases
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

February IDW Publishing Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

Retro Review: The Siege of AR-558
By: Michelle on Nov 15

Trevco Full Bleed Uniform T-Shirts
By: T'Bonz on Nov 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 22 2013, 12:48 PM   #136
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

hux wrote: View Post
but wait, that means someone actually wants to be a waiter??
Actually, yes.

I think your cynicism stands in your way here.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 01:18 PM   #137
hux
Lieutenant Commander
 
hux's Avatar
 
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Actually, yes.

I think your cynicism stands in your way here.
so you could travel through the stars, join star fleet, write a holo novel, explore the ruins of blah blah three, anything you want....and you choose to be a waiter

hmm, i think your gullability stands in yours
__________________
Kryton - Is this the human quality you call....friendship

Lister - Don't give me any of that Star Trek crap, its too early in the morning
hux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 01:23 PM   #138
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

hux wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Actually, yes.

I think your cynicism stands in your way here.
so you could travel through the stars, join star fleet, write a holo novel, explore the ruins of blah blah three, anything you want....and you choose to be a waiter

hmm, i think your gullability stands in yours
Yes, why not?

Besides, joining Starfleet isn't that easy.
Writing a holonovel... just because you can do it doesn't mean you're good at it, just look at the fan fiction section here.

So, to be cynical like you, even if you don't have to earn money, you can suck so much at everything else that the only thing that's left is being a waiter.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 01:29 PM   #139
Star Wolf
Rear Admiral
 
Star Wolf's Avatar
 
Location: ciudad de Los Angeles
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
hux wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Actually, yes.

I think your cynicism stands in your way here.
so you could travel through the stars, join star fleet, write a holo novel, explore the ruins of blah blah three, anything you want....and you choose to be a waiter

hmm, i think your gullability stands in yours
Yes, why not?

Besides, joining Starfleet isn't that easy.
Writing a holonovel... just because you can do it doesn't mean you're good at it, just look at the fan fiction section here.
Just like here it doesn't matter if its good since your next bowl of soup doesn't depend upon other people buying it. No money also means anyone can build a ship, maybe gun control means some mercenary Ferengi will take it from you but you can run arong in your private Runabout like Captain (rerired) Scott
__________________
I'm not crazy! All I Really Need to Know I learned by Watching The Wire
Star Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 01:31 PM   #140
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
No money also means anyone can build a ship
No money suddenly equals infinite knowledge and skill?
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 01:34 PM   #141
Star Wolf
Rear Admiral
 
Star Wolf's Avatar
 
Location: ciudad de Los Angeles
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

why do you need knowledge just as there is the free better himself waiter there s Jethro Gibbs building starships in his basement and pattern replicating computers.
__________________
I'm not crazy! All I Really Need to Know I learned by Watching The Wire
Star Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 06:44 PM   #142
hux
Lieutenant Commander
 
hux's Avatar
 
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Writing a holonovel... just because you can do it doesn't mean you're good at it, just look at the fan fiction section here.
harsh

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
So, to be cynical like you, even if you don't have to earn money, you can suck so much at everything else that the only thing that's left is being a waiter.
but in a world like the one trek presents us, you don't have to be a waiter if you suck at everything....you could travel the planet having adventures because food, clothing and shelter are not something that you need to worry about in that world.....if you woke up tomorrow in a society where you could beam to any part of the world, never needed to worry about food, clothing, material possessions.......you're honestly telling me you'd stop and say.....no, i'll become a waiter instead......seriously!

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
No money suddenly equals infinite knowledge and skill?
No but it does mean you have nothing but free time to do anything you want.....so why be a waiter (for no money!!!!) when you could learn about engineering (or any other subject you like) at school....also for no money
__________________
Kryton - Is this the human quality you call....friendship

Lister - Don't give me any of that Star Trek crap, its too early in the morning
hux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 06:51 PM   #143
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Location: comfortably residing in the meat packing district
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
hux wrote: View Post
but wait, that means someone actually wants to be a waiter??
Actually, yes.
Change it slightly, someone actually wants to consistently be a waiter?

Shows up every day that they're scheduled. Stays for the entire shift. Doesn't suddenly say "screw this" and walks out, never to return.

hux wrote: View Post
they need to be more consistent in the storytelling
Well to be fair, there's only a single line, in a single movie (First Contact) where a character comes right out and states "money doesn't exist."

And there's also a small smattering of don't use - don't carry - don't need money. But the bulk of Star Trek is actually pretty consistent about the Federation having some kind of value exchange going on.
__________________
.
TOS, TNG and VGR never mentioned a "Federation President."

Last edited by T'Girl; January 22 2013 at 07:07 PM.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 07:31 PM   #144
hux
Lieutenant Commander
 
hux's Avatar
 
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Well to be fair, there's only a single line, in a single movie (First Contact) where a character comes right out and states "money doesn't exist."
off the top of my head

Voyage home
Gillian: Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd Century?
Kirk: Well, we don't.

Pretty sure they attempt to definitively suggest that money is obsolete in the 23rd century onwards on many an occasion.....though they later tried to pretend that what they meant was that money (actual notes and coins doesn't exist)....but yeah currency does (credits) but not ya know, money as you know it - that's not consistent with the initial premise but i guess it's consistent with the premise that money (notes and coins) no longer exist (though they are conveniently vague about the distinction)
__________________
Kryton - Is this the human quality you call....friendship

Lister - Don't give me any of that Star Trek crap, its too early in the morning
hux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 08:42 PM   #145
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Location: comfortably residing in the meat packing district
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

hux wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Well to be fair, there's only a single line, in a single movie (First Contact) where a character comes right out and states "money doesn't exist."

And there's also a small smattering of don't use - don't carry - don't need money.
off the top of my head

Voyage home
Gillian: Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd Century?
Don't I mention that?
__________________
.
TOS, TNG and VGR never mentioned a "Federation President."
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2013, 10:52 PM   #146
paudemge
Captain
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

I think it is reasonable to assume that the federation doesn't use any physical currency, but other evidence suggests that they do in fact use "money" and that it is the motivation of some individuals even in the federation.
paudemge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2013, 05:41 PM   #147
hux
Lieutenant Commander
 
hux's Avatar
 
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Don't I mention that?
yeah, i'm agreeing with you but i don't buy the idea that it was a simple misunderstanding of language which you seem to be suggesting - as far as i'm concerned, they blatantly sold us the premise that money is gone, finished, it doesn't exist and we have evolved beyond material things..............but then realised that this didn't add up so said, oh wait, yeah, currency does actually exist but what we meant to say was money as you know it (notes and coins) doesn't

and if that really was their sincere intention from the start then why bang on about money doesn't exist in so many episodes, films etc when a form of currency clearly did exist......as far as i'm concerned, they definitely tried to sell us that idea but then dropped it when they realised it just wasn't workable and lead to far too many contradictions/inconsistencies

so yeah....not consistent for me
__________________
Kryton - Is this the human quality you call....friendship

Lister - Don't give me any of that Star Trek crap, its too early in the morning
hux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2013, 12:16 AM   #148
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

hux wrote: View Post
When i watched TNG, i always wondered why there would be waiters? Picard tells the unfrozen people from earths past that in the future, people don't do things for material gain but instead they do things to better themselves so presumably everyone is doing what they want with their lives and there is no need for money...........but wait, that means someone actually wants to be a waiter?? what....because this betters them (as Picard claimed).....really!!.....i mean sure, running a star ship is a challenge but hey, waiting on him would be just as much of a challenge.....it sure would sir......bollocks!

Like in all societies.....the rich will always need someone to bring them their drinks....in Trek, they solve this by pretending it's what people want to do with their lives.....people want to bring Picard his drinks while he explores the unknown because ya know....it's a challenge .......when i see someone working an 8 hour shift in Tesco, i don't kid myself that they are doing it to better themselves or that they want to be there but for some reason Trek expects us to buy this

That's why i liked the Maquis....they were the first thing in Trek to suggest that this Utopian society was not all it was cracked up to be
Well, consider this:

"Certain jobs are regarded as so distasteful, that they are filled by a permanent rotation system in which almost everyone serves his turn; the most notable instance is work in the kitchen and dining room, such as cooking, dishwashing, and serving..." Melford Spiro - Kibbutz: Venture in Utopia

"In the absence of private property, and of money, it is obvious that the profit motive does not operate in this society." Melford Spiro - Kibbutz: Venture in Utopia.

Think of that guy in STAR TREK 2 vacuuming the floor in the background while Spock and Kirk are chatting. Who's to say he does that full time? Maybe it was just his turn that week to clean the floors?

Also, as I pointed out in the past, Revolutionary Spain abolished money but their were still waiters doing their jobs. George Orwell and others noted this.

"Foreigners who gave a tip had it politely returned with an explanation of why the practice corrupted both the giver and the receiver." The Spanish Civil War by A. Beevor.
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2013, 01:36 AM   #149
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

hux wrote: View Post
.......when i see someone working an 8 hour shift in Tesco, i don't kid myself that they are doing it to better themselves or that they want to be there but for some reason Trek expects us to buy this
Also don't assume an 8 hour day is universal. Today in France people work 7hour days/35 hour weeks, in the Israeli kibbutzim people were working 6 hour days, and during the Spanish Revolution the workday was split between two people to alleviate unemployment.

And you do know how the 8 hour day came about? From the IWW (Industrial Workers of the World or Wobblies). They advocated for the 8-hour work day/5 day work week in place of the 12-hour work day/6 day work week. They originally wanted to reduce the work week even further.

"8 hours of labor! 8 hours of rest! 8 hours recreation!" [It was something along those lines]

"...we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, 'abolition of the wages system.'" - Preamble to the IWW.

"Give the worker the full product of his toil and his pension is assured." - 'Big Bill' Haywood (IWW Speaker).
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2013, 06:44 AM   #150
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
Also, as I pointed out in the past, Revolutionary Spain abolished money but their were still waiters doing their jobs. George Orwell and others noted this.

"Foreigners who gave a tip had it politely returned with an explanation of why the practice corrupted both the giver and the receiver." The Spanish Civil War by A. Beevor.
That's why the regions under anarchist control needed to implement very soon a rationing system, yes?
Because the system was going so well. And not because they were running out of products/etc.

Feel good ideas and some superficial anecdotes change nothing to socialist systems (which is what you're proposing) failing to create wealth.
As said, socialism only works until you run out of other peoples' money (products/however you want to name resources).
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton

Last edited by Edit_XYZ; January 29 2013 at 02:24 PM.
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.