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Old January 20 2013, 03:02 AM   #121
Dale Sams
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
You can't explore and make contact the way Enterprise does if you held to a rigid "non-inteference" doctrine, it would force you into isolationism for fear you'd be interfering.
Of course that's just the point. The PD hadn't been developed. And the point of the early seasons was to capture the naivete of the crew, and the dilemma's of interfering with a culture because they had to, wanted to, needed to, or just thought they were doing the right thing, versus the unknown ramifications of doing so.
Just ftr...Kirk would have completly, utterly ignored it. McCoy wouldn't dream of bringing it up, and Spock..might...MIGHT, just for the sake of discussion, bring it up only to be shouted down.

TNG would have used the 'cry for help' as an excuse to get involved. If Beverly discovered the 'stagnant DNA', she would have ignored it. The crux of the drama would have probably been Picard ordering her to stop* until this case could have been ruled on and Beverly saying her Hippocratic oath supercedes her duty to Starfleet and threatens to resign.

*and we would have called it the stupidest thing ever. Much like that second season Ep with Data and the little alien girl.

I'm not using TNG or TOS to make a point, just to say how I think they would have handled it.
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Old January 20 2013, 03:06 AM   #122
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

Also, what about Similitude?

They create a human being for the expressed purpose of being a living organ bank.
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Old January 21 2013, 09:20 AM   #123
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

The point of Dear Doctor, and the PD, is to protect members of Starfleet from having to actually make decisions based on their morality. Picard said this in an episode, I think Pen Pals.
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Old January 21 2013, 01:45 PM   #124
BillJ
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
The point of Dear Doctor, and the PD, is to protect members of Starfleet from having to actually make decisions based on their morality. Picard said this in an episode, I think Pen Pals.
Not about morality, its about common sense. It's about actually examining the facts, its about examining what's happening in the here-and-now vs. what might happen a thousand years down the road.

Even if you completely discount that the Menk seem to be evolving quite well even with Valakian presence... they still interfered by handing the Valakians medicine that would ease their suffering for about a decade. They increased the odds that the Valakians would either find a cure on their own or develop a means of contacting another species that would work with then to create a cure.

The episode is pure non-sense.
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Old January 21 2013, 04:52 PM   #125
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
The point of Dear Doctor, and the PD, is to protect members of Starfleet from having to actually make decisions based on their morality. Picard said this in an episode, I think Pen Pals.
Not about morality, its about common sense. It's about actually examining the facts, its about examining what's happening in the here-and-now vs. what might happen a thousand years down the road.

Even if you completely discount that the Menk seem to be evolving quite well even with Valakian presence... they still interfered by handing the Valakians medicine that would ease their suffering for about a decade. They increased the odds that the Valakians would either find a cure on their own or develop a means of contacting another species that would work with then to create a cure.

The episode is pure non-sense.

Yeah, isn't that another ridiculous part of the episode? They're against "interfering," but they give them medicine which interferes in the diseases natural progression, and they consider it to be fine if they either find the cure on their own or another species helps them find it.


So... wtf? Either the disease should be let to run its course because "evolution intends it," or it's fine for them to get a cure for it. Instead, Archer and Phlox's attitudes seem to be "it's fine if they die from the plague or if they find a cure themselves or from another species, as long as it's not US HELPING THEM!" That's... like the least defensible position of any of them.


It continually baffles me to see that episode listed as one of the best of season 1.
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Old January 21 2013, 05:03 PM   #126
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

sonak wrote: View Post
It continually baffles me to see that episode listed as one of the best of season 1.
Well, when you ignore the morality of it, Dear Doctor is a good character piece for Phlox and an excellent spotlinght for John Billingsley. And let's face it, Enterprise season 1 isn't exactly filled with top quality episodes. Seriously, this, Broken Bow, Shadows of P'Jem and Shuttlepod One are really the only top quality episodes of the season.
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Old January 21 2013, 05:05 PM   #127
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

i think still defending dear dr at this point and after all thats been said; good luck but thats an insane course of action.
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Old January 21 2013, 05:11 PM   #128
The Wormhole
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

I'm not denying the morality is flawed, I'm just pointing out why it's among the best of season 1. Which it really is.
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Old January 21 2013, 05:16 PM   #129
sonak
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
It continually baffles me to see that episode listed as one of the best of season 1.
Well, when you ignore the morality of it, Dear Doctor is a good character piece for Phlox and an excellent spotlinght for John Billingsley. And let's face it, Enterprise season 1 isn't exactly filled with top quality episodes. Seriously, this, Broken Bow, Shadows of P'Jem and Shuttlepod One are really the only top quality episodes of the season.

It WOULD have been a good character piece for Phlox if the ending didn't make you hate him and want him locked up.

Seriously, I remember watching the episode for the first time, and getting to the end, and just staring at the screen after it was over, thinking "Seriously?!? Did they really just do that?"
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Old January 21 2013, 05:26 PM   #130
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

sonak wrote: View Post
It WOULD have been a good character piece for Phlox if the ending didn't make you hate him and want him locked up.
It's the first episode that goes into any detail about his relationships with the crew and his background or really any details about him and his race. That makes it a good character piece to me.
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Old January 21 2013, 06:54 PM   #131
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
The point of Dear Doctor, and the PD, is to protect members of Starfleet from having to actually make decisions based on their morality. Picard said this in an episode, I think Pen Pals.
Which is a cop out of moral responsibility. By the logic of the Prime Directive, if they came upon one of Hitler's concentration camps, they'd just let it go about it's business based on non-interference of another culture.
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Old January 21 2013, 07:53 PM   #132
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

R. Star wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
The point of Dear Doctor, and the PD, is to protect members of Starfleet from having to actually make decisions based on their morality. Picard said this in an episode, I think Pen Pals.
Which is a cop out of moral responsibility. By the logic of the Prime Directive, if they came upon one of Hitler's concentration camps, they'd just let it go about it's business based on non-interference of another culture.
I think issues like these are where the Prime Directive is useful. People/societies have to learn some things for themselves. Whooshing in and telling them that it's wrong and pounding the offending party with phaser fire will only work for as long as your sitting in orbit playing babysitter. And will likely only escalate the hate that one party has for another.

I have always stated there are only two reasons to violate the Prime Directive, extinction level events and to fix prior violations.
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Old January 21 2013, 09:35 PM   #133
Kelthaz
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

Not interfering in another culture's development is all well and good, but what does that even mean? The Federation has ambassadors and alliances with various alien races. Shouldn't they cut off all diplomatic ties and go all crazy isolationists similar to the Vorlons?
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Old January 21 2013, 11:10 PM   #134
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Not interfering in another culture's development is all well and good, but what does that even mean? The Federation has ambassadors and alliances with various alien races. Shouldn't they cut off all diplomatic ties and go all crazy isolationists similar to the Vorlons?
No, because there's a difference between normal diplomatic contact and interference.
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Old January 21 2013, 11:53 PM   #135
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Re: most "wrong" episode...

Really the Prime Directive is so vague and inconsistently applied, I just often think it's an excuse to give the Federation moral superiority over any given issue.
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