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Old January 19 2013, 07:33 PM   #106
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@ The Librarian

Good reminder about that enigmatic "transtater" technology mentioned in "A Piece of the Action" (Captain Kirk couldn't drive a combustion vehicle!). Though I do not believe it used tiny dilithium diamonds (there was no hint that the Iotians might have such resources), the closing remarks in this episode suggested that the imitation of this technology could enable the Iotian to overtake the Federation. Which inevitably would assign dilithium crystals a less important role in the "big" picture.

@ blssdwlf

Come to think about it, we discuss properties of an exotic substance we do not really have a clue how it actually would work IRL. Whether it amplifies energy or stores large amount of energies or has the capability of doing both things is not the (warp) core issue as long as we agree that the energy coming from these crystals either way is essential to have warp drive capability.

Bob
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Old January 19 2013, 08:12 PM   #107
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
@ blssdwlf

Come to think about it, we discuss properties of an exotic substance we do not really have a clue how it actually would work IRL. Whether it amplifies energy or stores large amount of energies or has the capability of doing both things is not the (warp) core issue as long as we agree that the energy coming from these crystals either way is essential to have warp drive capability.
No worries. I'm pretty aware that we're discussing properties of not only an exotic substance but essentially a fictional universe(s) where we don't really know how their stuff would actually work IRL. If we disagree it's all good anyway since it's your project and your vision
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Old January 20 2013, 09:44 PM   #108
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
No worries. I'm pretty aware that we're discussing properties of not only an exotic substance but essentially a fictional universe(s) where we don't really know how their stuff would actually work IRL. If we disagree it's all good anyway since it's your project and your vision
Just because it's my project doesn't mean that my "vision" is necessarily correct. I do look forward to criticism where people provide feedback and bluntly tell me where they think I've fallen too much in love with some pet theory clouding my judgement and an objective approach to come up with a feasible interior arrangement (it's better to have such criticism now while it's work in progress and can be fixed rather than have a finished result later that's faulty and more difficult to correct).

I realize now that to suggest that the "EPS relay" column (seen in "In A Mirror, Darkly" aboard Defiant) contains the antimatter injectors to the m-am reactor above was a whacky idea (add to this that the grey tubes on the outside do not extend beyond the bottom base of he column).

Bob
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Old February 23 2013, 09:57 PM   #109
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

I've been asked to upload the picture in the post below. Text will follow from the author (Robert_Comsol)
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Old February 24 2013, 12:29 AM   #110
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Thanks Mytran, I appreciate your assistance.

Engineering Deck 11 (Version 3.02 / 130221)

This one took longer than I originally expected but the first drafts (admittedly heavily influenced by my “circular” thinking, then) needed a drastic overhaul.

There’s not much TOS information on this engineering deck, so I took the suggestions for the engineering hull interiors of the USS Defiant (NCC-1764) from the ENTERPRISE episode “In A Mirror, Darkly” (AMD) into account that helped me to fill in the gaps.
In a manner of speaking, the visual TOS information had to submit itself to the ENT “facts” but I’d like to think that the sum of both is more than just the original parts.

Important: According to my exterior window estimates the deck height of E-Deck 11 is approximately 5 meters / 16 feet. This enables the inclusion of two engineering levels where we have the “Jefferies Corridors” from ENT on E-Level 5 below and E-Level 4 (with the energizer corridors) above. In this draft illustration E-Level 4 partially obscures the view of the full length “Jefferies Corridor” on Level 5 below (especially in the aft section of the reactor chamber!).

At 3 o’clock we see the circular corridor segment from “By Any Other Name”. On the port side there’s the access to the ladder leading up all the way to E-Deck 9 (and from there to the ladder that leads to the emergency manual monitor further to the stern). In this corridor Kirk met Spock and Scotty and apparently came through the main door (studio set) from the engine room. The improvement in this new draft is that there is a narrow corridor connecting the tri-ladder from above to allow Kirk his passage (he must have passed the wall seen here behind Major Reed in AMD at 2 o’clock in the starboard energizer corridor).

Kirk, Spock and Scotty then took the starboard turbo lift that started with horizontal travel, obviously connecting to the vertical and diagonal shaft that took them straight to the bridge (notice the two reserve turbo lift cars / holding spots port and starboard). The starboard turbo shaft only leads up further, the port one leads up to E-Deck 10 (to rationalize Kirk and McCoy’s arrival on E-Level 3 in “The Ultimate Computer”) and all the way down.

Another TOS location (with the exception of the flight deck further to the stern and not yet illustrated) would be the corridor segment with the Jefferies Tube in Section A 3 where Lt. Josephs found the body of the Tellarite ambassador in “Journey to Babel” (since Main Deck 11 is probably to small to have several sections, I presume the addition “Section A 3” in Josephs’ report made everyone listening understand he was referring to Engineering Deck 11 on the port side).

Troublesome and time consuming was a credible visualization of the cat-and-mouse Gorn chase in AMD: After having secured Engineering Deck 15 (E-Deck 22 according to some alien minds) “mirror” Archer and company took a tri-ladder up to E-Deck 12 (the energizer corridor there will be removed in a future draft!), exited at 9 o’clock and walked to a (standard) ladder that enabled them access to E-Level 5 above at 3 o’clock (notice the “Shklovsky glow” of the still inactive m-am reactor chamber in the background).

There, Archer closed the ladder bulkhead (should be there to avoid decompression in case the “engineering core” is ever jettisoned) to cut off the Gorn’s possible escape route (notice Reed’s hesitation. If the Gorn would get there that would probably mean he got past Reed who would be dead by then…excellent acting by Dominic Keating). Reed and his men proceeded down the Jefferies Corridor (notice the overhead blue Cherenkov glow, indicating TMP-style EPS conduits that extend from the reactor to the stern where these the go up to the warp engines to provide extra “warp power”) from where they took a ladder to the upper E-Level 4.

Archer and his man than proceeded clockwise to the 9 o’clock position (where earlier in the episode the ill-fated Kelby had popped up) to prepare to ambush the Gorn who they expected to take a ladder down to E-Level 5 to evade Reed and his men. When their ambush plan went south, Archer and his man followed Reed’s original path counter-clockwise, took the route they expected the Gorn would have taken and presumably took Kelby’s corridor to arrive at the upper level (“balcony”) of the forward main sensor-deflector engine room, left the engine room and took the adjacent turbo lift (the shaft now ‘moves” to the center to rationalize the vertical / diagonal lift ride straight to the bridge seen in “Tomorrow Is Yesterday”).

Since I mentioned earlier that I believe this deck to contain various technical components I color highlighted some of these. The exterior grid structure port, starboard and at the bottom are space hydrogen intakes / space matter “sinks”, IMHO, which is next processed into deuterium. The deuterium stored here can either be used as a matter reactant for the matter-antimatter annihilation in the reactor chamber or as a nuclear fusion reactant with tritium for the energizers. I stored the tritium (not required for m-am reaction) further to the stern and though I’d like to believe it has something to do with the “Tail Pipe Socket Adjustment Access” text sign below the exterior warp engine starboard pylon (i.e. fueling socket), I presume this text would indicate something else (but what?).

Enjoy and discuss, Engineering Deck 10 now coming up soon.

Bob
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Old February 24 2013, 10:01 AM   #111
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

There's a whole lot of everything going on in this deck! Would it be possible to get separated diagrams of the upper and lower Deck 11s? I got a little lost following Archer and his motley crew around the various corridors,

Having said that, you've made a very cohesive job of tying the ENT and TOS stuff together, far more than I would have though possible. Well done!
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Old February 24 2013, 01:44 PM   #112
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@ Mytran

With separated diagrams, the lower E-Level 5 would look rather boring and empty.

Essentially, it's a circular platform surrounding the m-am reaction chamber. The two circular floor openings at 9 and 3 o'clock are ladders that lead down to Engineering Deck 12 (which now needs to be cleared of the "energizers" illustrated in the latest draft a few posts earlier).

The "Kelby" Jefferies Corridor extends to the bow, the "Archer" Jefferies Corridor (same length) to the stern (in the illustration the 3 o'clock energizer corridor on E-Level 4 above "covers" this corridor below / "shields" it from our view).
On that E-Level 5 platform we have at least three ladders (conventional "Environmental Engineering" and/or EMM style) that connect to E-Level 4 above, one at 12 and one at 6 o'clock and one on the port side of the "Archer" corridor.

Once I got to the point of presenting a cutaway this should be much clearer and graphic.

Bob
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Old March 2 2013, 07:11 PM   #113
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP




Engineering Deck 10 (Version 3.01 / 130301)

While the previous version posted in this thread was rather an experimentation battleground / heavy WIP I’m happy to present a new version in a much more orderly fashion (although there is one thing I liked better in the previous one...). Again, the lack of detail at this stage is owed to the aim to first cover all the sets and locations seen aboard the USS Enterprise in TOS.

The eye-catcher in this revision is probably the cover hatch of the engineering core in the center, which was inspired by the animated episode “Beyond the Farthest Star”.

I found myself unable to interpret the TAS animation cels literally (e.g. standard engine room). Especially the engineering core room cel is closer to a medieval painting than one from the renaissance period (which finally saw the overdue introduction of the perspective projection in art).

I’ve therefore taken the liberty to isolate the essential elements of the TAS engineering core room and re-arrange them in what I believe to me a more credible manner:
  • The room shape essentially appears to be a horseshoe.
  • The background wall and overhead lighting is definitely reminiscent of the bridge stations, apparently somewhat larger and without seating.
  • To the left of the room are control consoles apparently same as the engine room ones.
  • The cover hatch of the engineering core (resting on a hinge?) is definitely circular and looks better when parallel to the horseshoe walls, IMHO (I believe the cover hatch to serve as a sight glass which protects against radiation and decompression after the engineering core has been ejected in an emergency such as the one that came up in “That Which Survives”).
To the stern of this room we find the corridor segment with the Jefferies Tube with engineering circuit bay G-121 seen in “The Ultimate Computer” (UC). This can’t be the same corridor segment like in “By Any Other Name” because the GNDN on the wall left to the main door to the engine room (set) is missing here in UC (which establishes this scene to take place on “Engineering Level 3”).

The annoying side effect of the engineering core room is, of course, that the remaining space between this room and the “promenade corridors” is too narrow to allow the credible existence of crew quarters here, so I give up on this pet theory of mine (at least I keep the “diner area” between the promenade corridors and the outer hull).

I reversed the alignment of the “Phlox” EPS relay energizer corridor seen in “In A Mirror, Darkly” (AMD). After I finished this, I realized there’s nothing here to write home about, compared to the previous draft it looks like crap. The red (engine room set) door from UC behind Dr. Daystrom would now lead nowhere and the angled in access from the promenade corridors looks rather weird.

My “problem” was that the EPS relay column should align with the bigger “barrel” of the dilithium crystal converter assembly (dcca) of the warp drive engine room.
The battery (capacitor) in the “cathedral” will provide energy that is enhanced by the dcca to fire up the energizers (fusion reactors).
Their energy is in return enhanced through the dcca traveling in the opposite direction.

To keep this functionality intact, the AMD energizer corridor – correct alignment in the previous draft – would have to be shorter on the TOS Enterprise than on the AMD Defiant, where it practically extends into the UC corridor segment and takes up that TOS space, too (which I can’t consider a big loss, this UC corridor is somewhat redundant and might have been put to better use, i.e. four more energizers, aboard the later Defiant).

While I feel good aboard the starboard side “promenade corridor” (it never ceases to amaze me that the strange angle of the shorter corridor piece aligns perfectly with the strange angle of the AMD energizer corridor, the previous draft shows this much better, of course ), I think the port side one should have the same but mirrored design.

Because of the straight travel route through the center of the "core circle" in “The Changeling” on E-Deck 9 above, I said before that I presume there’s a transporter room on E-Deck 10 and it’s illustrated here on the starboard side towards the bow.

We discussed alignment of multiple transporter rooms in this Trek BBS thread, and I believe that the transporter rooms come as pre-fabricated, easy to service modules.

Nevertheless, especially because the “transporter section” door label suggests there is more than one in close proximity, IMHO (why shouldn’t the transporters work alternately but share one and the same pattern buffer?), I also wanted to illustrate an opposite transporter room (as suggested by Timo) on the port side, now that there’s no curved corridor in its way.

Needless to say I was rather astonished to notice that the tri-ladder from the forward main sensor-deflector engine room (E-Deck 12) perfectly aligns with a spot where there’s this strange wall ladder seen in the transporter room from “The Cage”. This ladder apparently leads nowhere above and oddly lacks a couple of rungs near the bottom. Of course, if there was a floor hatch that magnetically attaches to the wall and features these missing rungs you’d had a straight connection from the tri-ladder near the forward engine up to this transporter room.

Apparently it also has another floor hatch to access the Jefferies Tube seen in “Journey to Babel”. I don’t think the Orion assassin actually lifted the heavy (!) Tellarite ambassador up and into the tube but rather dumped the body in there from above. The vacant transporter room might have been the perfect spot where to assassinate the Tellarite ambassador and get rid of his body.

Summary:
  • E-Deck 10 now reflects the TAS engineering core room (which I believe could/should be a little smaller, i.e. not wider than the adjacent turbo lift max. extensions)
  • Bow transporter section accommodates transporters from “The Cage” and “The Changeling”
  • EPS relay energizer corridor needs to be redone to align in a similar fashion as in the previous draft
Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; March 2 2013 at 07:29 PM.
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Old March 2 2013, 07:42 PM   #114
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Fascinating, as always. Great coincidence about the transporter room rungs, I often wondered what purpose they might serve!
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Old March 2 2013, 10:27 PM   #115
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Hey, this is really coming together. I love the inclusion of the TAS stuff, too. I agree that the background paintings ought not to be taken literally as even their renderings of the live-action sets were pretty liberal with the details.


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Old March 3 2013, 12:06 AM   #116
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

I'll chime in with that one too. TAS offers some interesting new designs (although in some places heavily influenced by FJ's plans) but still limted to 1970s animation standards - using them as a guideline rather than an actual rule is definitely the way to go.

With regards to The Changling, are you proposing a ramp or stairs or something for them to access the Transporter Room?
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Old March 3 2013, 04:17 AM   #117
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
I'll chime in with that one too. TAS offers some interesting new designs (although in some places heavily influenced by FJ's plans) but still limted to 1970s animation standards - using them as a guideline rather than an actual rule is definitely the way to go.

With regards to The Changling, are you proposing a ramp or stairs or something for them to access the Transporter Room?
The bolded text up there is not correct. It is a common misconception that TAS and the FJ TM had anything to do with each other.

TAS aired from 1973 to 1974 and the TM was released in 1975. So, none of TAS was influenced in any way by the FJ TM. Also, Franz Joseph had vehemently denied being influenced by TAS. Really the only thing that seems like it may have been a TAS influence was the second door to access the bridge, but FJ said that he just added it because he thought it was a good idea to have more than one entry to the bridge. Pretty much every part of the ship he drew was influenced by his "seemed to make more sense that way" philosophy.

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Old March 3 2013, 04:44 PM   #118
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@ Mytran

Yes, I feel there should have to be a straight corridor connection from the warp drive engine room via a ramp towards the deck below. I find myself unable to imagine them using a turbo lift as that Nomad mechanical beastie could have blown up any second.

Then there's the dilithium crystal regeneration room from "The Alternative Factor" which I assume to make the most sense on E-Deck 9 in proximity to the warp drive engine room. Though we don't know to which transporter room Kirk followed Lazarus, I think it would be odd if he used a turbo lift if there were transporter rooms on E-Deck 9 (just to be on the safe side ).

Another thing why this transporter section couldn't be higher up is the "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" turbo shaft from E-Deck 14 that almost aligns to the main shaft in the center on E-Deck 9, on E-Deck 10 he touches the straight corridor but doesn't compromise it, yet.

@ Albertese

I recently came across a cel illustration from TAS that depicted a "mirrored" transporter room (unless the cel was "flopped"), same as the ones Franz Joseph suggested (did he watch some TAS? Notice that on his engineering hull blueprints some circular "hatches" show up that could have been inspired by the TAS engineering core room, too).

Actually, I had wanted to illustrate a "mirrored" transporter room (my module theory notwithstanding) but when I found out that the ladder of "The Cage" transporter room perfectly alligned with the tri-ladder below (maybe the didn't use tri-ladders yet during Pike's era?), I felt TOS has priority over TAS.

Bob

P.S. Notice that the center of the starboard side transporter room almost perfectly alligns with the transporter circuit column seen in the engine room in "The Enemy Within".

Unfortunately, it's only an "almost", shifting the starboard transporter room further towards the bow would result in the loss of the ladder location in the port side "Cage" transporter room.
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Old March 3 2013, 07:30 PM   #119
Albertese
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
...

@ Albertese

I recently came across a cel illustration from TAS that depicted a "mirrored" transporter room (unless the cel was "flopped"), same as the ones Franz Joseph suggested (did he watch some TAS? Notice that on his engineering hull blueprints some circular "hatches" show up that could have been inspired by the TAS engineering core room, too).
...
I dunno, I wasn't there. I suppose it's theoretically possible that he did watch a bit of it here and there. All I know is that in interviews he claimed that he never watched it and none of his work was related to TAS.

Memory Alpha has a release date of April 1975 for the Star Trek Blueprints... a.k.a. the Booklet of General Plans but I think this may be an error. It seems right for the Star Trek Technical Manual, but the BGP pages all say "copyright 1973 Paramount Pictures." I don't know when in 1973 they were drawn, but "Beyond the Farthest Star" was aired in September of 1973. Given the time it takes to produce either something like the blueprints, or something like the Animated Series, I would assume that the "hatch-like" structures you're seeing in the Engineering section of the FJ stuff and the big hatch from the animated episode were arrived at independently. They definitely weren't produced in cooperation.

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Old March 3 2013, 09:42 PM   #120
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Some more research
www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=388320
http://www.shawcomputing.net/racerx/...s_to_scale.jpg

Something you might want to do at a later date:

The TAS Enterprise looks to allow more room in the shuttlebay. You might want to do some line drawings based on this:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpo...81&postcount=8
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