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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 17 2013, 09:49 PM   #31
Dale Sams
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Jeyl wrote: View Post
While I still hold to the opinion that the treatment of women in Trek09 with laughable, I do give kudos to this new movie in letting Uhura take on a more prominent role that I hope will be more than just benefiting the male characters. Like in the comic books that IDW have been releasing where she defies even Kirk's orders to save Spock and everyone on the Galileo Seven.
I give the Uhura/Spock transporter scene a pass for the same reason I gave BSG a pass for 'fraterinizing at the end of the world'. Because it IS the end of the world (or could be in the Trek example)...people don't think very logically in those cases.

Hopefully in the next movie, we won't see the XO and the Comm officer making out in front of the Captain while he taps his foot and whistles waiting for them to get their tongues out of each others mouth.
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Old January 17 2013, 10:01 PM   #32
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
...Hopefully in the next movie, we won't see the XO and the Comm officer making out in front of the Captain while he taps his foot and whistles waiting for them to get their tongues out of each others mouth.
Or their index and middle fingers off each other's hands.
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Old January 18 2013, 02:53 AM   #33
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
While I still hold to the opinion that the treatment of women in Trek09 with laughable, I do give kudos to this new movie in letting Uhura take on a more prominent role that I hope will be more than just benefiting the male characters. Like in the comic books that IDW have been releasing where she defies even Kirk's orders to save Spock and everyone on the Galileo Seven.
It wasn't exactly laughable - I had my head in my hands. However, the comics are inching towards a more balanced approach. If that represents a greater awareness that they need more women, that they should stop replacing pre-existing female characters with yet more men, and that they need to update the women to give them more balanced roles, then this may filter through into the on-screen franchise. I will prepare a rant just in case they fail spectacularly again. If I'm honest, I'm expecting token female syndrome again, where the women are only given roles relating to sex/relationships with Uhura and Marcus obscuring that fact by being visible at the top of the chain.
TNG+ didn't help matters much. If you ascend to commander or higher (Janeway, Necheyev, Shelby) then you must be an icecold bitch to get there......
Well, the test Deanna Troi took to get promoted did require her to order holo-Geordi to kill himself to pass.
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Old January 18 2013, 04:44 AM   #34
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
While I still hold to the opinion that the treatment of women in Trek09 with laughable, I do give kudos to this new movie in letting Uhura take on a more prominent role that I hope will be more than just benefiting the male characters. Like in the comic books that IDW have been releasing where she defies even Kirk's orders to save Spock and everyone on the Galileo Seven.
It wasn't exactly laughable - I had my head in my hands. However, the comics are inching towards a more balanced approach. If that represents a greater awareness that they need more women, that they should stop replacing pre-existing female characters with yet more men, and that they need to update the women to give them more balanced roles, then this may filter through into the on-screen franchise. I will prepare a rant just in case they fail spectacularly again. If I'm honest, I'm expecting token female syndrome again, where the women are only given roles relating to sex/relationships with Uhura and Marcus obscuring that fact by being visible at the top of the chain.
TNG+ didn't help matters much. If you ascend to commander or higher (Janeway, Necheyev, Shelby) then you must be an icecold bitch to get there.....much less so with Janeway than the other two admittedly.
Janeway became a war criminal instead.
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Old January 18 2013, 09:21 AM   #35
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
TNG+ didn't help matters much. If you ascend to commander or higher (Janeway, Necheyev, Shelby) then you must be an icecold bitch to get there.....much less so with Janeway than the other two admittedly.
Janeway became a war criminal instead.
Lol - I give the ladies a pass because Shelby was ambitious to distinguish her from Riker, who was stagnating - there are many male characters with similar traits but we notice Shelby because there are few high profile officers to choose from.

And I LOVE Nechayev. She came across as stony-faced and ice-cold but in fact she was putting on her game face to deliver orders from her superiors she didn't actually agree with. I bet she was great fun at parties and she was fascinating to watch.

And a lot of it is perception - I've seen many people label Janeway as bossy. Well duh. Basically, if they have more women, these characters will be part of a larger, general mix.

I don't give the transporter scene in NuTrek a pass because it lacked all subtlety. A brief (and I mean brief) TOS style finger touch which catches Kirk's attention would have preserved their professionality, have as much significance to the couple (Vulcans are telepathic), and could have been underscored when Spock tries to give her a final message later. They delayed quite a few precious seconds snogging and emoting when an entire planet was at stake. It was dreadful.
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Old January 18 2013, 10:16 AM   #36
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
TNG+ didn't help matters much. If you ascend to commander or higher (Janeway, Necheyev, Shelby) then you must be an icecold bitch to get there.....much less so with Janeway than the other two admittedly.
Janeway became a war criminal instead.
Lol - I give the ladies a pass because Shelby was ambitious to distinguish her from Riker, who was stagnating - there are many male characters with similar traits but we notice Shelby because there are few high profile officers to choose from.

And I LOVE Nechayev. She came across as stony-faced and ice-cold but in fact she was putting on her game face to deliver orders from her superiors she didn't actually agree with. I bet she was great fun at parties and she was fascinating to watch.

And a lot of it is perception - I've seen many people label Janeway as bossy. Well duh. Basically, if they have more women, these characters will be part of a larger, general mix.

I don't give the transporter scene in NuTrek a pass because it lacked all subtlety. A brief (and I mean brief) TOS style finger touch which catches Kirk's attention would have preserved their professionality, have as much significance to the couple (Vulcans are telepathic), and could have been underscored when Spock tries to give her a final message later. They delayed quite a few precious seconds snogging and emoting when an entire planet was at stake. It was dreadful.

You make a good point about spock/uhura snoging at the transporter scene. Some people didn’t like it. however they felt that they will give it a pass because there was a chance she will never see him again.(him going on a death mission and on).

Others said they should have done the finger touch thing which is equivalent of a Vulcan kiss. JJ and the writers did have that in mind however they felt that many of the movie viewers who knew nothing about Trek wouldn’t understand what it meant so JJ and his crew decided to have spock/uhura kiss like any normal couple.

More proof again that the 09 film was made to appeal to the masses
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Old January 18 2013, 10:28 AM   #37
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I don't give the transporter scene in NuTrek a pass because it lacked all subtlety. A brief (and I mean brief) TOS style finger touch which catches Kirk's attention would have preserved their professionality, have as much significance to the couple (Vulcans are telepathic), and could have been underscored when Spock tries to give her a final message later. They delayed quite a few precious seconds snogging and emoting when an entire planet was at stake. It was dreadful.
The entire point of the Spock/Uhura transporter scene was to show that Spock was out of the closet. No longer hiding the fact that he has emotions, no longer hiding his affection for Uhura from the world.

You're so caught up on military protocol (how often has Trek cared about such things?) that you've missed the point of Spock's story arc, his coming out alegory. Which is sad. Everyone sees, they're all a little suprised, but they all accept it without question.
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Old January 18 2013, 10:38 AM   #38
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
You're so caught up on military protocol (how often has Trek cared about such things?) that you've missed the point of Spock's story arc, his coming out alegory. Which is sad. Everyone sees, they're all a little suprised, but they all accept it without question.
And now in the next movie they will be snogging all over the damn ship!!!

Oh well, I'm sure they will squeeze McCoy in there somewhere. Perhaps when he gives them the Vulcan/Human babies talk. I imagine it will be a lot crustier than when Phlox did it.
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Old January 18 2013, 10:48 AM   #39
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

teacake wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
You're so caught up on military protocol (how often has Trek cared about such things?) that you've missed the point of Spock's story arc, his coming out alegory. Which is sad. Everyone sees, they're all a little suprised, but they all accept it without question.
And now in the next movie they will be snogging all over the damn ship!!!

Oh well, I'm sure they will squeeze McCoy in there somewhere. Perhaps when he gives them the Vulcan/Human babies talk. I imagine it will be a lot crustier than when Phlox did it.
He'll never do it better than Mordin Solus gave Shepard the various human/whatever talks in Mass Effect 2.
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Old January 18 2013, 04:46 PM   #40
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
in fact this argument started when the dvd of the 09 film was released there was mild complains about zoe been on the front of the dvd instead of karl urban.
And "ST:TMP" promotional artwork replaced McCoy with Ilia! And yet McCoy had plenty to do in TMP - and the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triumvirate, while threatened with longterm hiatus, was restored by movie's end.
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Old January 18 2013, 08:01 PM   #41
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I don't give the transporter scene in NuTrek a pass because it lacked all subtlety. A brief (and I mean brief) TOS style finger touch which catches Kirk's attention would have preserved their professionality, have as much significance to the couple (Vulcans are telepathic), and could have been underscored when Spock tries to give her a final message later. They delayed quite a few precious seconds snogging and emoting when an entire planet was at stake. It was dreadful.
The entire point of the Spock/Uhura transporter scene was to show that Spock was out of the closet. No longer hiding the fact that he has emotions, no longer hiding his affection for Uhura from the world.

You're so caught up on military protocol (how often has Trek cared about such things?) that you've missed the point of Spock's story arc, his coming out alegory. Which is sad. Everyone sees, they're all a little suprised, but they all accept it without question.
I think JJ made a mistake thinking that finger-touching would not be understood. We saw it for the first time in TOS and we understood it. Did people get dumber in the last 40 years? It's all in the presentation i.e. it could have been established in an earlier scene in addition to kissing.

For me it isn't about military protocol though. I feel exactly the same about similar scenes in the movie '2012' when people are wasting time hugging while a woman is drowning in the next room or while the ship needs emergency repairs or everyone dies. When seconds count and lives are at stake I find sentimental indulgence to be offensive.

Plus, I didn't fail to understand Spock's arc at all - compromised as his emotions are, I might even overlook his conduct but Uhura has had emotions all along. It belittles her as an officer to show HER emotions take precedence at a time of such crisis. Why is it always about the man?

And again, Kirk and Spock go it alone in order to cement their friendship when in fact sending a fluent-Romulan-speaking technician, a med-tech (for Pike) and a couple of security guards would have made far more sense.

If the scene had been briefer, I would probably have let it pass but it drags on and on to the point where they are obviously wasting valuable time. I'm all for Uhura and Bones getting more time but not if they're just tools to make us love Kirk and Spock all the more. Let them be their own characters.
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Old January 18 2013, 08:44 PM   #42
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

As far as wasting valuable seconds on emotional hoopla, yea, that's a common trope. Anytime you watch a movie where a psycho is down and their weapon is out of their hand, the heroes will sit there embracing, instead of grabbing the weapon and running, or finishing the psycho off. Or a storm or Nuclear weapon is coming, and the hero is almost to safety, and stops for hugs and meaningful glances, etc. Or Enterprise NX-01 having time to stop off at Risa and the episode Northstar when they're on such a time critical mission.

The list goes on and on for this kind of stuff, it happens in just about every movie or TV show in one way or another
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Old January 18 2013, 09:03 PM   #43
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

I wonder why so many writers don't know how annoying it is?

Since watching Zombieland I find myself shouting, 'Don't forget the double tap' at the screen A LOT.
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Old January 18 2013, 09:15 PM   #44
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I wonder why so many writers don't know how annoying it is?

Since watching Zombieland I find myself shouting, 'Don't forget the double tap' at the screen A LOT.
I guess they do it for added tension, 'cause they know you're sitting there, "Hurry up, do "x" you moron, or the "y" is gonna "z". There's time for that mushy stuff when you're actually safe"
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Old January 18 2013, 11:49 PM   #45
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I wonder why so many writers don't know how annoying it is?

Since watching Zombieland I find myself shouting, 'Don't forget the double tap' at the screen A LOT.
I guess they do it for added tension, 'cause they know you're sitting there, "Hurry up, do "x" you moron, or the "y" is gonna "z". There's time for that mushy stuff when you're actually safe"
Not me. By that point, I'm rooting for the villain.
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