Jadzia

[Dankokoro]

Melakon wrote:

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I do agree that Farrell was a lightweight. Watch her try to carry Hellraiser III as the lead. And especially laughable delivery of the line "Then what the fuck is that?"

Haha, i think i'll have to pass on that

[Ryva Brall]

Dankokoro wrote:

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I definitely noticed that her character fluctuated quite a bit over the course of the 6 seasons (not quite as accurately as you did), and i was quite tolerant of her for the first few seasons, but it was her 'final form' that i really couldn't stand. I swear there were entire episodes where she did not say one serious thing.. I mean i'm all for a character that lightens the mood, but with her it just seemed relentless. This was also hard to reconcile with the fact that she's supposed to be the product of 7 lifetimes worth of wisdom and experience etc.. she's basically just a smartass?

TOTALLY. She's supposed to be wise, not a wiseass. I remember in the episode where she and Worf are slogging through that jungle planet, and even when she's seriously injured, all she can do is crack jokes (and not even good ones), I kept thinking, "Why is Worf WITH this woman??"

[Worf'sParmach]

Excellent analysis, CorporalClegg!

Ryva Brall wrote:

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I agree with most everyone's comments about Jadzia. To me, it seemed like the writers tried way too hard to make her interesting, and it just came off as forced. She was a genius with eight lifetimes' worth of knowledge, Sisko's oldest friend, a Klingon warrior, and nearly every male character was in love with her, but somehow she just didn't live up to all the hype. I never disliked her, but she was always my least favorite of the main cast. And I always gave an inward sigh whenever she was the main focus of an episode.

I agree. I only like Jadzia cause Worf is my favorite ST character and he liked her She was too "everything" on a show where people were made more interesting by their "faults" so to speak. The fact that he had no faults became her biggest failing. Things that are perfect are not interesting. Not to mention her stale acting skills.

I guess in a big ensemble cast, someone's got to be the Geordi LaForge/Harry Kim of the group. Jadzia Dax was it.

[CorporalClegg]

Worf'sParmach wrote:

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Excellent analysis, CorporalClegg!

Thank you.

For that, I might have to read some of your fan-fics.

[BennyRussel]

Dankokoro wrote:

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...I got spoilers that she gets killed off eventually, and so for the past few seasons i've been waiting for that very special episode to arrive..

Oh wow that is cold!!

[Melakon]

Dankokoro wrote:

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. . .I got spoilers that she gets killed off eventually. . .

They tie her arms and legs to four runabouts and Sisko says "Go!"

[CorporalClegg]

That can't be true, can it? I mean I thought DS9 only had three runabouts?

[Melakon]

Oh, you're right. It was three runabouts and the Defiant.

[Dale Sams]

Worf'sParmach wrote:

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Excellent analysis, CorporalClegg!

I agree. I only like Jadzia cause Worf is my favorite ST character and he liked her She was too "everything" on a show where people were made more interesting by their "faults" so to speak. The fact that he had no faults became her biggest failing. Things that are perfect are not interesting. Not to mention her stale acting skills.

I guess in a big ensemble cast, someone's got to be the Geordi LaForge/Harry Kim of the group. Jadzia Dax was it.

Oh now...Geordi came a long ways. I'd say TNGs Kim-Dax was Beverly before I'd say it was Geordi.

and re: the ep where they sent Worf and Dax together and Worf abandoned the mission for her...WERE THEY NUTS??! (the ones responsible for sending a husband-wife team.)

[Rush Limborg]

Well...

I'm not a hater of Jadzia--I could easily see her as a "gal you could have a beer with", discuss sports, etc. You know, "one of the guys".

Still...I do find her constant "irreverence" quite off-putting. She constantly goes out of her way to make jokes at the expense of everyone and everything she can--and when someone dares to bust her chops, she acts all offended!

There's also the running gag that whenever a secret a regular wants to be kept--and it gets spread around the station...the explanation almost invariably is that "so-and-so told Dax"--"Oh, well, yeah--that explains it."

And then, there's the constant mind game she seemed to enjoy playing at Bashir's expense--spinning him around her finger, and snickering all the way. *sigh*

In short, she has respect for precious little--while she seems incapable of laughing at herself. In both elements, Ezri is far superior.

[Ryva Brall]

Rush Limborg wrote:

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And then, there's the constant mind game she seemed to enjoy playing at Bashir's expense--spinning him around her finger, and snickering all the way. *sigh*

You raise a good point. The more I think about it, Jadzia was pretty danged manipulative when it came to Bashir... and Quark, for that matter. She knew they both had feelings for her, and she loved using it against them. If there's anything I can't stand, it's somebody who toys with others' emotions. It shows a lack of class. Someone who has lived eight lifetimes should be above that sort of thing, shouldn't they?

[teacake]

I was utterly meh about Jadzia (though her death upset me) for the first two DS9 watches. Suddenly in rewatch 3 I appreciated the character and I guess I pretty much glossed over any mehness by seeing her as someone whose had a lot of lifetimes so at times appears not overly invested in the current one. This worked for me.

That said I adore Ezri.

[teacake]

Ryva Brall wrote:

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You raise a good point. The more I think about it, Jadzia was pretty danged manipulative when it came to Bashir... and Quark, for that matter. She knew they both had feelings for her, and she loved using it against them. If there's anything I can't stand, it's somebody who toys with others' emotions. It shows a lack of class. Someone who has lived eight lifetimes should be above that sort of thing, shouldn't they?

Above or thinking it's a joke?

I think what we see with beings who live a very long time is they get less tolerant and sympathetic towards normal emotions rather than more. She goes into a snickering Q mode at times because she just can't take this stuff seriously.

[Worf'sParmach]

Ryva Brall wrote:

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Someone who has lived eight lifetimes should be above that sort of thing, shouldn't they?

I think taking this attitude about Dax (Jadzia Dax espically) is what made her so "Mary Sue" in the begining especially. Because she has had so many lifetimes she "should" be abover everything, right? Well, that would mean she has no flaws or conflict which means she's a know-it-all snoozefest.

If they had done a better job of showing that her emotional carelessness and inability to take things seriously was really not a good thing, it would have gone over better. I think they tried to do that through her relationship with Worf, especially in "Let He Who is Without Sin" but it just didn't hit the mark. Instead of showing that she needs to be more considerate of others it just made him look like a big uptight douche.

teacake wrote:

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I think what we see with beings who live a very long time is they get less tolerant and sympathetic towards normal emotions rather than more. She goes into a snickering Q mode at times because she just can't take this stuff seriously.

I agree. Having seen so much over so many years would make a person more detached, less emotionally invested and therefore less serious. After 350+ years, you kind of take on a "No big deal, I've seen this all before" attitude. I think a good character angle for her would have been to better highlight that having that attitude (which she did more and more as the seasons went on) makes it hard to form meaningful relationships with people who haven't seen it all. Admitedly, she and Sisko touched on this in their scene together in the wedding episode.

[teacake]

You're right, this could have been built upon and made her a much more interesting character. What we ended up with was her being a bitch at times and everyone seemingly oblivious to this but the viewer.