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Old January 10 2013, 12:33 PM   #61
teacake
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
In Gene Rodenberry's perfect future where humans have evolved beyond conflict in the workplace, even sworn enemies like the Starfleet and the Maquis get along without friction when necessary.
Except during the terrorist activity part.
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Old January 10 2013, 12:45 PM   #62
Guy Gardener
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Tom blew up a power station without any help from his terrorist buddies.

And did you see Janeway go to town in the Omega Directive?

She's a better Chakotay than Chakotay.
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Old January 11 2013, 06:33 PM   #63
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

R. Star wrote: View Post
jpch wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Even for the sake of argument, if all those 17 episode were about the Maquis, that's 17 out of 172. Ten percent. So that means for 90% of the show they're virtually ignored.

In reality it's more, how much is subject to opinion. Guy and I came up with similar, though slightly different conclusions, but hey.
as i already said,its illogical to keep focusing on the Maquis...you are in a new quadrant filled with new species,planets etc to explore and after 2 or 3 years the Maquis adapted to life on Voyager and became fully integrated and focusing on a single goal and that is getting home.
Nevermind the fact that people don't just "fully integrate" at the snap of a finger, or that the Maquis shouldn't be so eager to warp home in a 9.975 prison bus, but if you're arguing that the Maquis shouldn't need to be a major plot point, why did you try defending the fact that they were?
No,what i am saying is that the first 2 seasons the Maquis/Kazon/Vidiians were the biggest part of Voyagers problems,i am defending the point that the Maquis were there and had a few episodes...and it was not a prison bus they all had the same privileges as the other star fleet officers.
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Old January 11 2013, 07:05 PM   #64
R. Star
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

jpch wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
jpch wrote: View Post

as i already said,its illogical to keep focusing on the Maquis...you are in a new quadrant filled with new species,planets etc to explore and after 2 or 3 years the Maquis adapted to life on Voyager and became fully integrated and focusing on a single goal and that is getting home.
Nevermind the fact that people don't just "fully integrate" at the snap of a finger, or that the Maquis shouldn't be so eager to warp home in a 9.975 prison bus, but if you're arguing that the Maquis shouldn't need to be a major plot point, why did you try defending the fact that they were?
No,what i am saying is that the first 2 seasons the Maquis/Kazon/Vidiians were the biggest part of Voyagers problems,i am defending the point that the Maquis were there and had a few episodes...and it was not a prison bus they all had the same privileges as the other star fleet officers.
Well I addressed the "few episodes" and fully integrating point in my previous posts if you'd like to look over them again, so no point in repeating myself.

To the prison bus comment, they are terrorists. That's what Janeway was doing in the Badlands, hunting terrorists. If they got back in Caretaker, they would've all been escorted to prison cells.

So yes, not only are they going back to the Federation where arrest awaits them, but they get the honor of driving their own prison bus there because Warden Janeway needs a few extra hands?

Now you can argue they wanted to get back because of the Maquis cause itself... except this is never mentioned at all by any of the Maquis characters. Heck most of them are advocating settling down when the oppurtunity knocks. Which definitely makes a lot of sense -after- the Maquis find out the Dominion killed everyone they care about. It might have been interesting to hear them planning a mutiny when they get closer to home, so they can use their ship to help the Maquis, then scrap these plans as they find out what did really happen, but we never saw any actual depth like that.

They Maquis were just used in a very half-ass manner in Voyager, which is weak considering the divided crew as supposed to be one of the show's main premises.
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Old January 11 2013, 07:51 PM   #65
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

R. Star wrote: View Post
jpch wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

Nevermind the fact that people don't just "fully integrate" at the snap of a finger, or that the Maquis shouldn't be so eager to warp home in a 9.975 prison bus, but if you're arguing that the Maquis shouldn't need to be a major plot point, why did you try defending the fact that they were?
No,what i am saying is that the first 2 seasons the Maquis/Kazon/Vidiians were the biggest part of Voyagers problems,i am defending the point that the Maquis were there and had a few episodes...and it was not a prison bus they all had the same privileges as the other star fleet officers.
Well I addressed the "few episodes" and fully integrating point in my previous posts if you'd like to look over them again, so no point in repeating myself.

To the prison bus comment, they are terrorists. That's what Janeway was doing in the Badlands, hunting terrorists. If they got back in Caretaker, they would've all been escorted to prison cells.

So yes, not only are they going back to the Federation where arrest awaits them, but they get the honor of driving their own prison bus there because Warden Janeway needs a few extra hands?

Now you can argue they wanted to get back because of the Maquis cause itself... except this is never mentioned at all by any of the Maquis characters. Heck most of them are advocating settling down when the oppurtunity knocks. Which definitely makes a lot of sense -after- the Maquis find out the Dominion killed everyone they care about. It might have been interesting to hear them planning a mutiny when they get closer to home, so they can use their ship to help the Maquis, then scrap these plans as they find out what did really happen, but we never saw any actual depth like that.

They Maquis were just used in a very half-ass manner in Voyager, which is weak considering the divided crew as supposed to be one of the show's main premises.
Well i also think that we did not get enough Borg episodes,i wanted more,i wanted the Queen to slap Janeway and have a catfight but it did not happen and that ruins the fact that Voyager is stuck in the Delta Quadrant home of the Borg...this is exactly what you people are saying
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Old January 11 2013, 09:04 PM   #66
R. Star
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Uh... no.

Voyager wasn't founded on the premise on being Star Trek Borg. It wasn't until season 4 they started showing up with any regularity. So that really makes your comparison invalid. Your opinion of that particular antagonist, is just that. Mine happens to be different.

By the logic of you saying, the Delta Quadrant has the Borg so there should be more Borg episodes. Well... couldn't you say that about any one of a dozen Alpha Quadrant species? That TNG should've had more Cardassian or Talarian episodes? Space is big. There can be more than one antagonist in a given area.

Either way, Voyager was never supposed to be -about- the Borg. It was supposed to be about a divided crew being force to work together. What we got was just a few brief acknowledgements of this early on, then nothing beyond a few people with funny rank badges around that act exactly like Starfleet people.
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Old January 12 2013, 01:08 AM   #67
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

A sphere of influence that stretches 5000 light years in every direction from Unimatrix 001, that will take Voyager 10 years to bisect if they don't run awry of Cubes with progressing frequency...

That's almost a 1/4 of the Delta Quaarant (A roughly 25,000 light year squared shere of space.) that is completely Borg.

On the other hand long range transwap scans of real space not only knew that Voyager was appraoching their space but where it is at all times. It's as possible that they were waiting for Voyager to be less inconvienient to smite as that they couldn't be bothered smiting it at all since Voyager had nothing of Value on board (as far as the Borg knew).but then Voyager's Borg are a lot more petty and vindictive than TNG's Borg.
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Old January 12 2013, 09:45 AM   #68
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

On the other hand long range transwap scans of real space not only knew that Voyager was appraoching their space but where it is at all times. It's as possible that they were waiting for Voyager to be less inconvienient to smite as that they couldn't be bothered smiting it at all since Voyager had nothing of Value on board (as far as the Borg knew).but then Voyager's Borg are a lot more petty and vindictive than TNG's Borg.
I thought Voyager was one of the most advanced ship in the fleet with new systems and bio neural gel packs, besides she was half the size of the Enterprise D so should be that difficult to deal with for the Borg
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Old January 12 2013, 10:23 AM   #69
C.E. Evans
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

teacake wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
In Gene Rodenberry's perfect future where humans have evolved beyond conflict in the workplace, even sworn enemies like the Starfleet and the Maquis get along without friction when necessary.
Except during the terrorist activity part.
The only real difference between Humans in TOS and Humans in TNG is that the latter professed to being better than their 20th-Century predecessors a lot. Otherwise, people in the 24th-Century didn't always agree on everything, but on a starship far from home, having people at each other's throats is generally considered a bad thing anyway, IMO.
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Old January 12 2013, 10:41 AM   #70
Guy Gardener
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

USS Firefly wrote: View Post
On the other hand long range transwap scans of real space not only knew that Voyager was appraoching their space but where it is at all times. It's as possible that they were waiting for Voyager to be less inconvienient to smite as that they couldn't be bothered smiting it at all since Voyager had nothing of Value on board (as far as the Borg knew).but then Voyager's Borg are a lot more petty and vindictive than TNG's Borg.
I thought Voyager was one of the most advanced ship in the fleet with new systems and bio neural gel packs, besides she was half the size of the Enterprise D so should be that difficult to deal with for the Borg
I wank around a bit when I talk. You know how the Borg ignore Boarding parties until they do something intimidating? I mean really, really, really ignore really really well armed Starfleet commandos carrying huge amounts of explosives in back packs?

Economies of scale.

The Borg should let ships wander though their space without challenge unless they do something stupid like attack a unimatrix, or prove to have a unique distinctiveness worth assimilating.

"The Borg assimilate civilizations, not individuals."

There was a 90 percent, by my reckoning, chance that the Borg would have completely ignored Voyager for the full ten year tenure route through Borgspace... And lets just laugh that Kathryn ever though that she could have hidden her dinky little row-boat from a species that can cross the galaxy safely and scan their proximity through out for impediments, in a matter of weeks.
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Old January 18 2013, 07:20 AM   #71
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

we have seen other characters go from security/tactical to operations and vice versa including worf,sito, and obrien so I would say its realistic
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Old January 18 2013, 07:24 AM   #72
teacake
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Would you want Harry Kim guarding you from assassination?
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Old January 18 2013, 07:36 AM   #73
Guy Gardener
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

It's also his job to stop all the ensigns from shagging the new aliens they met each week who haven't passed the health checks yet.
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Old January 18 2013, 07:50 PM   #74
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

hayesc0 wrote: View Post
we have seen other characters go from security/tactical to operations and vice versa including worf,sito, and obrien so I would say its realistic
No one is saying that it's not realistic going from one of those departments to another. What we're mostly saying is that... Well, to be blunt, Kim is pretty useless and is the last person that should be head of security. He certainly wouldn't make me feel secure.

teacake wrote: View Post
Would you want Harry Kim guarding you from assassination?
Absolutely not. But Janeway... especially if we got some cuddle time... Oh yeah.
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Old January 18 2013, 08:24 PM   #75
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

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It's also his job to stop all the ensigns from shagging the new aliens they met each week who haven't passed the health checks yet.
Do as I say not as I do.
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