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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old January 18 2013, 03:01 AM   #1
PaulMarshall
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Jem hadar's cloak

How does this happen when they cloak ... It's obviously biological but shouldn't their clothes still be visible or is it not biological ... Idk lol

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Old January 18 2013, 03:29 AM   #2
Tosk
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

It's biological, but why would that prevent them from shrouding their clothes? Rather than their skin turning "invisible", maybe it's a field they generate that bends light around them?
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Old January 18 2013, 03:37 AM   #3
PaulMarshall
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Tosk wrote: View Post
It's biological, but why would that prevent them from shrouding their clothes? Rather than their skin turning "invisible", maybe it's a field they generate that bends light around them?
That's what I thought but I guess it's just one of those unexplainable trek flukes lol
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Old January 18 2013, 04:28 AM   #4
Tiberius
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Tosk does the same thing...
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Old January 18 2013, 04:31 AM   #5
PaulMarshall
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Damn you're right ... It must be some sort of technology far superior to star fleets ... Unexplainable lol
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Old January 18 2013, 04:35 AM   #6
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Tosk does the same thing...
Tosk and Jem'Hadar are supposed to be descended from the same 'original' species, IIRC. (The Hunters were supposed to be part of the Dominion. Probably still are.)
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Old January 18 2013, 06:10 AM   #7
PaulMarshall
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Where did you get that from ... I'd like to know lol
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Old January 18 2013, 06:41 AM   #8
Tiberius
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Tosk does the same thing...
Tosk and Jem'Hadar are supposed to be descended from the same 'original' species, IIRC. (The Hunters were supposed to be part of the Dominion. Probably still are.)
Actually, according to the DS9 companion, the idea is that the Dominion were also the ones who made Tosk for the hunters.
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Old January 18 2013, 06:50 AM   #9
PaulMarshall
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

But how does that pertain to the hirogen
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Old January 18 2013, 11:43 AM   #10
Timo
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Clearly, the Jem'Hadar or the Tosk are not shapeshifters: they don't blend into the background by physically becoming the background, or they would be far more irresistible a force, far less often daunted by obstacles designed to stop mere solid humanoids. But we have seen shapeshifting or camouflaging of another sort, that created by telepathic illusion. The Salt Vampire worked on that principle: never "actually" looking any different from its natural, hairy form, but instead "pretending" to be many sorts of other things, often simultaneously being different things to different observers.

The Jem'Hadar are likely to be psychic as well, as their cloaks can efficiently hide random pieces of equipment, such as guns or clothing. They just instill in our heads the idea that there's nothing to be seen there. A tricorder might spot them easily enough - we never really see that not happen! Or then they might instill in our heads the idea that the tricorder is showing nothing...

It's just that the Jem'Hadar and the Tosk are pretty primitive in what they do, only ever managing to pretend "not-being-hereness". The Salt Vampire is more refined, capable of pretending to be whatever the observer wants to see. We never learn whether there is actual intelligence behind that pretense, though: the one Salt Vampire we witness acts like an animal driven by instinct, and seals its fate by the failure to demonstrate much in the way of intelligence or strategy.

I guess the interesting question is, how much of the Founder ability to shapeshift/become invisible is psychic, and how much of it is physical. We saw Martia in ST6 actually changing her size so that a shackle that originally gripped her leg tightly suddenly became several sizes too big to hold her. We haven't actually seen the Founders do that exact sort of trick, but Odo has squeezed through some tight holes; has exerted superhuman forces on objects; and has become airborne - all of these are tricks a humanoid or an amber mass of goo would be hard pressed to achieve with mere telepathic tomfoolery.

Plus, it would make sense for the Founders not to give their own sort of public-image-manipulating ability to their cloned warriors. Probably the Founders actually change shape, then, while the Jem'Hadar and the Tosk just make us forget they are there.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 18 2013, 03:56 PM   #11
PaulMarshall
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Thank you timo you are awesome
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Old January 18 2013, 04:04 PM   #12
Tosk
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

PaulMarshall wrote: View Post
But how does that pertain to the hirogen
It doesn't. He was referring to the hunters of Tosk.
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Old January 18 2013, 04:49 PM   #13
PaulMarshall
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Oh my bad dude ... I was drinking last night lol
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Old January 22 2013, 05:01 AM   #14
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Tosk does the same thing...
Tosk and Jem'Hadar are supposed to be descended from the same 'original' species, IIRC. (The Hunters were supposed to be part of the Dominion. Probably still are.)
Actually, according to the DS9 companion, the idea is that the Dominion were also the ones who made Tosk for the hunters.
Also there was supposed to be a Hunter who appears in "Broken Link" (the guy who takes the helm of the Defiant as it's on its way to the Founder homeworld) but it got changed to a Jem'Hadar at the last minute.
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Old January 22 2013, 07:55 AM   #15
Tiberius
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Re: Jem hadar's cloak

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

Tosk and Jem'Hadar are supposed to be descended from the same 'original' species, IIRC. (The Hunters were supposed to be part of the Dominion. Probably still are.)
Actually, according to the DS9 companion, the idea is that the Dominion were also the ones who made Tosk for the hunters.
Also there was supposed to be a Hunter who appears in "Broken Link" (the guy who takes the helm of the Defiant as it's on its way to the Founder homeworld) but it got changed to a Jem'Hadar at the last minute.
That's news to me. Have you got a source for that?
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