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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 16 2013, 10:34 PM   #76
A beaker full of death
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Yeah, LTBYLB gets a bad rap because it's considered so obvious and facile an exaggeration. And yet, the divisions we make over sometimes undiscernible skin tone distinctions are no less absurd. That was rather the point.

And perhaps that may explain MR SPOCK, and his apparent attitude toward LOKAI and his apparent issues,.. maybe he senses something more sinister is lurking under the covers in this story,... and at the bottom of it all.
hmm, not sure... been a while since I've seen the ep.
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Old January 16 2013, 10:39 PM   #77
A beaker full of death
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Anwar wrote: View Post
That said, he and I joke a lot about racial topics. He calls me a cheap Jew; I call him a lazy schwartze. We're buddies, comfortable joking that way for the very reason that we don't believe these things for a second.
Would you say that stuff to someone you didn't know that well? A casual acquaintance?
Of course not. But the writers of Star Trek are depicting people who are intimate friends, and comrades in arms.
There's a lovely scene where Lincoln calls Uhura a "charming Negress," and immediately apologizes. She is bemused by his feeling the need to apologize, as there's simply nothing wrong with being black.

Obama got a Nobel prize for being elected while half-black. Is that the kind of world you applaud?
Would you rather we go back to reading via candlelight, because Electricity was changing things too much? XD
No. I'd rather a world where the president get evaluated for his qualifications and record rather than his skin tone. That's the world Star Trek tried to depict. That's the world Dr. King spoke of. A Nobel 6 days into office? Really? For what?


Veering back to the subject matter:
We know that Nimoy's wardrobe was originally slightly different from the rest of the cast's, to further set him off as different. I've always believed that Nimoy brought a lot of the Jewish experience in America to his portrayal of Spock - always the outsider, deeply private, with an unknown, practically mystical (and much misunderstood) mystique about him.
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Old January 16 2013, 11:07 PM   #78
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Maybe it goes beyond some people's sensitivities today, but for some time I've theorized that part of McCoy's "needling" of Spock was literally for the half Vulcan's physical and psychological well being. Maybe earlier in his career, Bones studied the case file for Spock, his being a gene spliced hybrid. Maybe some members of the original medical team who assisted and monitored his gestation, birth and early development noted that Spock should NOT favor the cultural norms of one species to the total exclusion of the other as that could &^%$ up a very delicate hormonal balance (i.e. totally suppressing his emotions, or even the opposite).

When McCoy takes his position of chief medical officer aboard the Enterprise, he reviews the records Boyce wrote that in summary stated, "Spock is not your 'average' Vulcan. Don't let him bottle his emotions. It can make him literally sick if not possibly kill him!" So, in his less than "silk glove soft" bedside manner, McCoy is urging Spock to "lighten up", if only for purely medical reasons.

That's my take on it, anyway. And, as Beaker pointed out, close friends can sometimes be the most caustic towards one another rather than with strangers.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old January 17 2013, 12:32 AM   #79
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Anwar wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post

Tip-toeing about on eggshells, making sure you properly identify a person's race before you address them, is hardly more tolerant or more understanding. It's just more self-congratulatory and superficial.
That doesn't really happen as much as the Old Codgers ( ) say it does. Maybe it's just an American thing.
I've seen it happen often enough.

Anwar wrote: View Post
I can't stand watching or reading the daily news anymore for the all the bullshit some people get worked up about.
In the city where I live, folks were upset over a pregnant 14 year old who was kidnapped by her boyfriend. You saying we shouldn't be upset by something like that?
You're taking my statement out of context. Of course a story such as you cite is naturally upsetting. But repeated stories of someone feeling slighted or offended for some presumed offence that isn't there gets tiresome real fast.
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Last edited by Warped9; January 17 2013 at 04:27 AM.
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Old January 17 2013, 05:49 AM   #80
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

it
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
A Nobel 6 days into office? Really? For what?
The exact same reason why KIRK has an award-record a mile long. Think it through,... again the KEY lies in applying STAR TREK parallelisms.

Whether for Heroism, Military Action, or Humanitarianism it all boils down to one thing and one thing only - Positive reinforcement Marketing tokens given out as rewards for good behavior in advancing the ultimate UFP agenda - To bring all planets, and their people, under the rule and standard of the UFP cultural ideal and control, by absorbing those cultures deemed 'correct', or 'correctable' with UFP 'aid', or destroyed as 'Dangerous' during "an act of self-defense" while invading their home world.

KIRK is a Poster-boy for the 'Agenda Ideal' of his moment, so he MUST be held up and recognized to show the sheep where to look for what is being accepted as "good" in the 'New Way'.

That's why.

LOL!!! Just wait till they roll out the next one they have waiting in the wings,. your head is going to spin.

Again,.. use the STAR TREK parallelisms,.. look at the design change over time in the IDEAL ROLE MODEL CAPTAIN,.. sensing a change here from Saurian Brandy, to Earl Grey Tea, to ______. Yes, STAR TREK is 'AHEAD OF ITS TIME,.. by about 15 years of impending cultural and behavioral standard.

As to the ANTI-SPOCK RACISM as it relates to his RELIGION,... we are NEVER shown this to be an "ANTI-SPOCK" cause for issue - in fact, quite the opposite - SPOCK's obviously Cabalistic practices, beliefs, and culture are of great benefit to the UFP agenda, and therefore we are only shown this in a positive light and every example but one - AMOK TIME (but then BIG PHARMA steps in to save the day,.. bah, of course!).

Obviously the ONLY UFP APPROVED RELIGION is JUDEO/CHRISTIAN, personified by KIRK/SPOCK,.. even though we are TOLD: "We honor all religious beliefs".

Really?

Because we are SHOWN a UFP approved Judeo/Christian culture every time a UFP members religious beliefs are an integral part of a scene.

HOWEVER,...every other religion the UFP encountered, then met with the nozzle-end of a phaser - Apollo, Landru, Va'al, etc, - and given a photon torpedo enema.

So while SPOCK didn't catch any ANTI-SPOCK heat for burning incense, using psychic abilities, or refusing to eat meat - remember these are UFP approved religious practices,..

And you'll approved them too - in 15 years time, or so - or get a "Bonk, Bonk" on the head.

However, being just ONE, among an all Human crew, I think the bigger reason is SPOCK KEPT HIS PERSONAL BUSINESS TO HIMSELF, and didn't go around pulling a LOKAI,.. and then run crying to KIRK, that he had been 'offended', when he was told take his bag of Vulcan VooDoo and jump-off.

Oh, and yes,.. KIRK will be labelled a DINOSAUR, eventually vilified, and made out to be an 'Evil Brute' from the past,...

"We have no such primitive thinking THESE days".

That is, once the UFP has all the Galaxy 'Signed-up' as 'Subscribers', or Destroyed by KIRK and other "rugged Starship Captains" of his "TYPE"

And to keep the sheep-like masses from getting any bright ideas about EVER acting up against the UFP control in the future,..

Or creating any upset within the civil population by collecting into bands of like minded, like-appearing, like_____ people,.. ANY non-acceptance of UFP approved standard will be deemed a HATE CRIME committed by a TERRORIST.

And since he no longer will serve a need to the UFP agenda - having been fulfilled - and since his attitudes will be branded as ANTI-UFP, INDEPENDENT THINKER, SELF-ACTING, a 'BAD MAN' - he will be labelled a _______ phobe,

Personal possession of Disputers will be strictly outlawed of course,..

And the TELE-TUBBIES will be given the ENTERPRISE, via government-funded grant, turn it into an intergalactic Disco/Club House for everyone,.. no one excluded, after all, 'we're all the same',.. even robots!,..and go cruisin' with Captain Twink.

"I. Robot",.. ? No, more like "Ay Carambe!"

So no,.. the JEWISHNESS of SPOCK will never be called into a contentious scene of RACISM/CULTURALISM,.. only a positive scene.

After all, its the UFP way!
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Last edited by Captain Tracy; January 17 2013 at 10:44 AM. Reason: typo
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Old January 17 2013, 07:15 AM   #81
Anwar
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Of course not. But the writers of Star Trek are depicting people who are intimate friends, and comrades in arms.
There's a lovely scene where Lincoln calls Uhura a "charming Negress," and immediately apologizes. She is bemused by his feeling the need to apologize, as there's simply nothing wrong with being black.
I dunno about you, but I'm not sure my Nigerian friend would appreciate it if I argued with him and called him a "Nigger bastard" playfully or if I called any of the Hindu friends "Towelheads" in an affectionate manner.

And Captain Tracy

The difficultly I am having is understand Why your personal experiences with racism are not reflected in your view of MR SPOCK in case where RACISM is directed toward him.
Because frankly, I found him just as racist in return, with a helping of hypocrisy on top of it. Not to say I think McCoy was that much better.
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Old January 17 2013, 10:22 AM   #82
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Anwar wrote: View Post
The difficultly I am having is understand Why your personal experiences with racism are not reflected in your view of MR SPOCK in case where RACISM is directed toward him. Because frankly, I found him just as racist in return, with a helping of hypocrisy on top of it. Not to say I think McCoy was that much better.
MY WORD!!!! There may hope for the future of humanity after all!!! That's very freshening considering the type of media and educational brain-washing your generation has been bombarded with; reminds me of ERRAND OF MERCY, where KOR said to KIRK,.. "What do we have here,.. a Ram?,.. amongst a population the Sheep!?!"

Did you grow up in the generation where your school sports teams were still allowed to keep score and WIN, or had that not been 'outlawed' at school yet in your day?

The so-called ANTI-SPOCK RACISM,... obviously you can see right through the entire STAR TREK charade... "even" based on your personal RACISM experiences,.. and how did you phrase that again,.. "Visually Identifiable Ethnic Difference", or something like that,... Classic LOL!,.. and "even" with that still, NO sympathy for SPOCK in your posts,.. Bingo!

You know that type of critical-thinking thing might get you into trouble,.. The Government is so supposed to have you hypnotized, complacent, and 'embracing ALL diversity',.. Are you a trouble-maker?

On BETA III, you would be labeled "NOT OF THE BODY", and cause Reger to flap his arms about like a ballerina while screaming for LANDRU.

I bet on EMINIR VII,.. you're probably the type of guy who wouldn't even dutifully report to the disintegration chambers when order by the robot-voiced computer,... what kind of 'Patriot' are you?!?

Now I see where you are coming from. Thanks.

My difficulty in understanding your point arose as you kept re-citing examples from scenes, which, from my PERSPECTIVE, doesn't allow me to actually understand your PERSPECTIVE, by pointing to the incident; that is, until you made the made the 'scene reference-less' point,...

To sum: "All the key STAR TREK characters are False, Hypocritical, and Racist in their conception".

"GASP!",

"HORRORS!",

"BLASPHEMY!",

Of course the are, Roddenberry designed the format that way purposefully,.. and NOT to show how "we are all the same deep down inside, once you get past the myriad of differences that makes us INDIVIDUALS, and we all get along just swell,...isn't all so chummy!"

ANWAR - Do you also feel SPOCK is a hypocrite, every time he dons his SF Uniform, considering what the UFP really does, and what SPOCK espouses to hold as his moral/ethic code?

And how did STAR TREK go from Gene's original concept of putting samples of humanity, with all their DIFFERENCES and DIVERGENT ATTITUDES, put them in a bottle and 'Shake them up under pressure', and watch them interact,...

... and get turned into a commercial, an agenda promoting propaganda advertisement, for BEING A CRIME TO EVEN LOOK AT THOSE DIFFERENCES AND HOLD A DIVERGENT ATTITUDE OF NON-EMBRACEMENT?

Or am I being a XENO/HOMOPHOBIC DINOSAUR, like the alarmist robot-voice over the speaker keeps repeating ?
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Old January 17 2013, 06:01 PM   #83
Anwar
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Oh come on, people ares till allowed to "Win" at games! I played competitive sports when I was a boy and we loved winning! Heck, our team at work is frequently pitted against each other at work in games and we get carried away with the competitiveness! Modern society is NOT that pussified!

TBH, I was kind of getting tired of the Spock/McCoy racist banter with one another after 3 seasons of if. I'm glad the movies gave them some character development wherein they both got over it (more or less) and grew as characters.
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Old January 17 2013, 08:59 PM   #84
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Anwar wrote: View Post

TBH, I was kind of getting tired of the Spock/McCoy racist banter with one another after 3 seasons of if. I'm glad the movies gave them some character development wherein they both got over it (more or less) and grew as characters.
It was still there in The Wrath of Khan and in bits and pieces in the other films.
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Old January 17 2013, 10:04 PM   #85
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

I feel it incumbent to point out that easily the most racist, xenophobic character ever depicted on TOS was the Vulcan ruler, T'Pau.
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Old January 17 2013, 10:05 PM   #86
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

ToddPence wrote: View Post
I feel it incumbent to point out that easily the most racist, xenophobic character ever depicted on TOS was the Vulcan ruler, T'Pau.
I don't know. For all her bluster, she essentially pulled Kirk out of a jam at the end.
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Old January 17 2013, 10:08 PM   #87
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

I think a lot of this is getting over analyzed and blown way out of proportion.
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Old January 17 2013, 10:19 PM   #88
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

How would it go in the Navy if someone on a sub or carrier talked to his/her XO the way Boomer, Styles, McCoy et al. talk to Spock?
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Old January 17 2013, 10:27 PM   #89
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Let's not forget we're still talking about a television show where a lot is done for the purpose of drama and sensation. It can have a sense of realism to it without being strictly true and authentic.

I do agree with beaker, though, because I've seen it firsthand friends talking to each other in what someone else not familiar with them would think is totally inappropriate language. A good film example of what I've seen can be found in Gran Torino in how Clint Eastwood's character relates to his barber.
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Old January 17 2013, 11:18 PM   #90
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

plynch wrote: View Post
How would it go in the Navy if someone on a sub or carrier talked to his/her XO the way Boomer, Styles, McCoy et al. talk to Spock?
Is this the Boomer that shoots Kirk or the one who has a baby with Chekov?
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