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Old January 15 2013, 10:43 PM   #31
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

Diet and lifestyle certainly play a large role, but that's no reason to ignore the possibility that other factors that might also be at work, and body fat is regulated by a lot of signaling mechanisms.
This is exactly why I said that, while it's probably not realistic for an obese person to be able to get to single digit bodyfat, but they *can* work to get themselves to a more normal range.

Example, a man who is 300lbs most likely only has around 180lbs worth of other mass, like muscle and bone, etc etc. So that means he is carrying 220lbs of useless fat. That's a lot.

Bodyfat wise, that guy is 73% bodyfat. To get down to 30% bodyfat, he has to lose about 70lbs, which would get him to 230lbs, and around 30% bf. While not a stellar weight, the difference in look and health will be night and day. The only diseases I know that would make this extremely difficult are problems with the thyroid. If the person has a faulty metabolism, the body won't be able to burn off a salad, but at this stage such a person should be seeking medical help.
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Old January 16 2013, 07:14 AM   #32
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

^ You might want to recheck your math.
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Old January 16 2013, 10:50 AM   #33
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

The results would need to be replicated on a larger scale (and on people) before they could be considered revolutionary.
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Old January 16 2013, 12:44 PM   #34
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

My gut bacteria keep telling me that I really like donuts
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Old January 16 2013, 03:52 PM   #35
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

Yoda wrote: View Post
My gut bacteria keep telling me that I really like donuts
awesome!!!
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Old January 16 2013, 04:15 PM   #36
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

RobertVA wrote: View Post
^ You might want to recheck your math.
I must have been sleeping at the switch or something. Let's try this again.

300lb man, who likely only have 180lbs of other tissue and bone mass (that's actually quite a bit, it means this guy is pretty thick naturally). So he has 120lbs of adipose tissue on his frame. This seems to be about 40% bodyfat, which is quite high, it's almost half his weight in fat.

So, let's say that he wanted to get down to 25% bodyfat, he would have to lose 45lbs, to get down to 255lbs.

I would say the difference in look would be staggering, and this is totally within reach of most people, even if they have minor health problems.
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Old January 16 2013, 11:11 PM   #37
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

That example is pretty much my history.

In highschool I topped out at about 285. At 6'1"-ish and stocky I was about 35-40% bodyfat. When I got down to about 180 at my thinnest, I was working out twice a day, living off of smoothies, sugar free tea, and meal replacement bars. The moment I began reintroducing normal foods (not junk, just recommended daily value sort of stuff) I started gaining back weight. I started going to the gym only 3-4 days a week and I started gaining it back quicker. Compared to my friends I was eating far less, and working out far more, and I was gaining weight. Diet and exercise DOES work, but I was not particularly interested in maintaining a lifestyle that meant denying myself all of my favorite food and spending 10-15 hours a week in the gym. I settled into a weight around 230-240 a few years ago and it appears that is where I will stay unless I pick up that gymrat life again.
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Old January 17 2013, 01:49 AM   #38
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

Venardhi wrote: View Post
That example is pretty much my history.

In highschool I topped out at about 285. At 6'1"-ish and stocky I was about 35-40% bodyfat. When I got down to about 180 at my thinnest, I was working out twice a day, living off of smoothies, sugar free tea, and meal replacement bars. The moment I began reintroducing normal foods (not junk, just recommended daily value sort of stuff) I started gaining back weight. I started going to the gym only 3-4 days a week and I started gaining it back quicker. Compared to my friends I was eating far less, and working out far more, and I was gaining weight. Diet and exercise DOES work, but I was not particularly interested in maintaining a lifestyle that meant denying myself all of my favorite food and spending 10-15 hours a week in the gym. I settled into a weight around 230-240 a few years ago and it appears that is where I will stay unless I pick up that gymrat life again.

Well its a lifestyle choice (as I said) your lifestyle doesnt include working at being a normal weight. Not a criticism, but almost anyone who says they cant do it decide not to...btw that includes people with thyroid problems...ive known people to overcome that with exercise and radical changes in diet.

BTW I can eat 6 meals with healthier food (not smoothies)and easily lose weight. It requires some discipline but doesnt necessarily mean changing everything about your life.
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Old January 17 2013, 05:00 AM   #39
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

RAMA wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
That example is pretty much my history.

In highschool I topped out at about 285. At 6'1"-ish and stocky I was about 35-40% bodyfat. When I got down to about 180 at my thinnest, I was working out twice a day, living off of smoothies, sugar free tea, and meal replacement bars. The moment I began reintroducing normal foods (not junk, just recommended daily value sort of stuff) I started gaining back weight. I started going to the gym only 3-4 days a week and I started gaining it back quicker. Compared to my friends I was eating far less, and working out far more, and I was gaining weight. Diet and exercise DOES work, but I was not particularly interested in maintaining a lifestyle that meant denying myself all of my favorite food and spending 10-15 hours a week in the gym. I settled into a weight around 230-240 a few years ago and it appears that is where I will stay unless I pick up that gymrat life again.

Well its a lifestyle choice (as I said) your lifestyle doesnt include working at being a normal weight. Not a criticism, but almost anyone who says they cant do it decide not to...btw that includes people with thyroid problems...ive known people to overcome that with exercise and radical changes in diet.

BTW I can eat 6 meals with healthier food (not smoothies)and easily lose weight. It requires some discipline but doesnt necessarily mean changing everything about your life.
I think the biggest problem is lack of knowledge.

People think they have to starve or eat weird combinations of stuff that don't help.

I'm actually working on getting to single digit BF myself right now, and I've lost about 12lbs so far from about a month and a half ago. My BF tester thing says I'm 18% but I think I'm more, maybe around 22%ish right now?

This is the leanest I've ever been, at 14%



I should reach this goal hopefully in a couple more months.

I've been doing my cardio on an empty stomach for 30mins every morning, and eating 4 times a day, 3 Lean Body protein MRP's and 1 "cheat" meal which has usually been a half chicken with a baked potato lol.

I'm having to take it easy because I'm working around injuries. RAMA, I've love to run some of them by you to see if you have any ideas.

Anyway the point is that if I can do it, anyone can, you just need the willpower and someone to help you with the details.
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Old January 17 2013, 07:50 AM   #40
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

RAMA wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
That example is pretty much my history.

In highschool I topped out at about 285. At 6'1"-ish and stocky I was about 35-40% bodyfat. When I got down to about 180 at my thinnest, I was working out twice a day, living off of smoothies, sugar free tea, and meal replacement bars. The moment I began reintroducing normal foods (not junk, just recommended daily value sort of stuff) I started gaining back weight. I started going to the gym only 3-4 days a week and I started gaining it back quicker. Compared to my friends I was eating far less, and working out far more, and I was gaining weight. Diet and exercise DOES work, but I was not particularly interested in maintaining a lifestyle that meant denying myself all of my favorite food and spending 10-15 hours a week in the gym. I settled into a weight around 230-240 a few years ago and it appears that is where I will stay unless I pick up that gymrat life again.

Well its a lifestyle choice (as I said) your lifestyle doesnt include working at being a normal weight. Not a criticism, but almost anyone who says they cant do it decide not to...btw that includes people with thyroid problems...ive known people to overcome that with exercise and radical changes in diet.

BTW I can eat 6 meals with healthier food (not smoothies)and easily lose weight. It requires some discipline but doesnt necessarily mean changing everything about your life.
You're not me. Congratulations. What is required for me to maintain a sub-20% bodyfat is different than what is required of you. I lost over 100 lbs at one point, and I know exactly how much time and effort it took and what eating habits I had to develop for it to start working. There is a difference between a willingness to work towards something and a willingness to dedicate 20% of the rest of your waking life to that thing. Telling people they just aren't trying hard enough when you have literally no idea at all what kind of efforts they're putting in makes you look like an enormous asshole. I'm pretty sure you're not, so watch your fucking tone.
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Old January 17 2013, 03:47 PM   #41
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

Venardhi wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
That example is pretty much my history.

In highschool I topped out at about 285. At 6'1"-ish and stocky I was about 35-40% bodyfat. When I got down to about 180 at my thinnest, I was working out twice a day, living off of smoothies, sugar free tea, and meal replacement bars. The moment I began reintroducing normal foods (not junk, just recommended daily value sort of stuff) I started gaining back weight. I started going to the gym only 3-4 days a week and I started gaining it back quicker. Compared to my friends I was eating far less, and working out far more, and I was gaining weight. Diet and exercise DOES work, but I was not particularly interested in maintaining a lifestyle that meant denying myself all of my favorite food and spending 10-15 hours a week in the gym. I settled into a weight around 230-240 a few years ago and it appears that is where I will stay unless I pick up that gymrat life again.

Well its a lifestyle choice (as I said) your lifestyle doesnt include working at being a normal weight. Not a criticism, but almost anyone who says they cant do it decide not to...btw that includes people with thyroid problems...ive known people to overcome that with exercise and radical changes in diet.

BTW I can eat 6 meals with healthier food (not smoothies)and easily lose weight. It requires some discipline but doesnt necessarily mean changing everything about your life.
You're not me. Congratulations. What is required for me to maintain a sub-20% bodyfat is different than what is required of you. I lost over 100 lbs at one point, and I know exactly how much time and effort it took and what eating habits I had to develop for it to start working. There is a difference between a willingness to work towards something and a willingness to dedicate 20% of the rest of your waking life to that thing. Telling people they just aren't trying hard enough when you have literally no idea at all what kind of efforts they're putting in makes you look like an enormous asshole. I'm pretty sure you're not, so watch your fucking tone.
Venardhi, I hope you don't take this in a negative way, because it's not the intent.

I have no idea about Rama and his lifestyle so I can't speak for him. I'd love to have his size lol but that's very hard to achieve even for me who can put on muscle relatively easy.

The biggest problem for me is that I am an endomorph, so sure, I can put on muscle, but I usually end up putting on fat even easier. So dude you're not the only one who struggles with that.

The way I structure my eating habits right now is that I think of cheat meals as something to look foward to. So for example, I will probably have Popeye's today for lunch. But I'll order 2 pieces with no fries, and a diet soda.

I find I stop the cravings for junk food like this, while keeping my calories low. My other meals are super lean, either Protein shakes, or salad with tuna/chicken breasts, etc.

To keep the weight off what you need is to do it build muscle. I see so many guys that don't lift weights. There's one guy in particular who is like 140lbs and still has a bit of a belly. He's obsessed with losing it, but it won't happen if he doesn't lift weights, as he's weak and small everywhere else.

I'll sum it up with something I saw on someone's desk a while back. It was a saying: "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels".

It's up to you to decide if that applies to your life.
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Old January 17 2013, 10:49 PM   #42
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post


Well its a lifestyle choice (as I said) your lifestyle doesnt include working at being a normal weight. Not a criticism, but almost anyone who says they cant do it decide not to...btw that includes people with thyroid problems...ive known people to overcome that with exercise and radical changes in diet.

BTW I can eat 6 meals with healthier food (not smoothies)and easily lose weight. It requires some discipline but doesnt necessarily mean changing everything about your life.
You're not me. Congratulations. What is required for me to maintain a sub-20% bodyfat is different than what is required of you. I lost over 100 lbs at one point, and I know exactly how much time and effort it took and what eating habits I had to develop for it to start working. There is a difference between a willingness to work towards something and a willingness to dedicate 20% of the rest of your waking life to that thing. Telling people they just aren't trying hard enough when you have literally no idea at all what kind of efforts they're putting in makes you look like an enormous asshole. I'm pretty sure you're not, so watch your fucking tone.
Venardhi, I hope you don't take this in a negative way, because it's not the intent.

I have no idea about Rama and his lifestyle so I can't speak for him. I'd love to have his size lol but that's very hard to achieve even for me who can put on muscle relatively easy.

The biggest problem for me is that I am an endomorph, so sure, I can put on muscle, but I usually end up putting on fat even easier. So dude you're not the only one who struggles with that.

The way I structure my eating habits right now is that I think of cheat meals as something to look foward to. So for example, I will probably have Popeye's today for lunch. But I'll order 2 pieces with no fries, and a diet soda.

I find I stop the cravings for junk food like this, while keeping my calories low. My other meals are super lean, either Protein shakes, or salad with tuna/chicken breasts, etc.

To keep the weight off what you need is to do it build muscle. I see so many guys that don't lift weights. There's one guy in particular who is like 140lbs and still has a bit of a belly. He's obsessed with losing it, but it won't happen if he doesn't lift weights, as he's weak and small everywhere else.

I'll sum it up with something I saw on someone's desk a while back. It was a saying: "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels".

It's up to you to decide if that applies to your life.
I tuned out as soon as I read "endomorph." The nonsense you're spouting there isn't scientific at all, and is borderline quackery.
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Old January 17 2013, 11:50 PM   #43
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

Eh, I wouldn't call it nonsense. Endomorph, mesomorph, and ectomorph are just words used to describe the three basic body types. It's no different that saying there are three hair colors: blonde, brunette, and redhead. Obviously, there is a lot of variation and not everybody is going to perfectly into one category, but it's an okay way to generalize things.

As for building muscle, it's not bad advice. The more muscle you have, the more calories your body will naturally burn, the less bodyfat you will have (assuming you're also eating a healthy diet). It's Fitness 101.
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Old January 18 2013, 01:11 AM   #44
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria



That was me at about 190ish, 6'1", 32 inch waist pants were falling off at 180 and I had just about zero visible fat on me. Even including just a few cheat meals a week became notable immediately at that point. Not working out every day, even while I continued a severely limited diet, resulted in about 15 lbs over the course of a month or two. There is nothing "normal" about my weight at that point if the only way I can keep it off is if I'm measuring out my diet with a scoop and a scale and spending 2-3 hours a day (sometimes more) at the gym. That isn't a normal lifestyle for anyone except athletes, models and body builders, and even a lot of them have more leeway.

Would I like to look like that still? Absolutely. Would I like to be able to turn heads in a bar like I used to? Goddamn right. Is it worth spending most of my free time to do so? I'm not convinced.
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Old January 18 2013, 05:44 AM   #45
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Re: Obesity linked to a gut bacteria

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
You're not me. Congratulations. What is required for me to maintain a sub-20% bodyfat is different than what is required of you. I lost over 100 lbs at one point, and I know exactly how much time and effort it took and what eating habits I had to develop for it to start working. There is a difference between a willingness to work towards something and a willingness to dedicate 20% of the rest of your waking life to that thing. Telling people they just aren't trying hard enough when you have literally no idea at all what kind of efforts they're putting in makes you look like an enormous asshole. I'm pretty sure you're not, so watch your fucking tone.
Venardhi, I hope you don't take this in a negative way, because it's not the intent.

I have no idea about Rama and his lifestyle so I can't speak for him. I'd love to have his size lol but that's very hard to achieve even for me who can put on muscle relatively easy.

The biggest problem for me is that I am an endomorph, so sure, I can put on muscle, but I usually end up putting on fat even easier. So dude you're not the only one who struggles with that.

The way I structure my eating habits right now is that I think of cheat meals as something to look foward to. So for example, I will probably have Popeye's today for lunch. But I'll order 2 pieces with no fries, and a diet soda.

I find I stop the cravings for junk food like this, while keeping my calories low. My other meals are super lean, either Protein shakes, or salad with tuna/chicken breasts, etc.

To keep the weight off what you need is to do it build muscle. I see so many guys that don't lift weights. There's one guy in particular who is like 140lbs and still has a bit of a belly. He's obsessed with losing it, but it won't happen if he doesn't lift weights, as he's weak and small everywhere else.

I'll sum it up with something I saw on someone's desk a while back. It was a saying: "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels".

It's up to you to decide if that applies to your life.
I tuned out as soon as I read "endomorph." The nonsense you're spouting there isn't scientific at all, and is borderline quackery.
As soon as I spouted "Endomorph" you considered what I'm saying quackery?

How about you educate yourself? Here's a start:

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/art...endomorph.html

I actually fit that description quite well. As an endomorph, I've found it extremely difficult to get below 14% body fat, and like Vernardhi was saying, at that stage of the game I was not willing to do what it would take to get lower. As you can see from my pic, I didn't really have definition, I'm just bulky, and my legs are very strong compared to the rest of my body.

If you want to get scientific, it's a simple formula. You eat less than you burn, and you lose weight. What you eat helps make the weight loss faster because it helps your body manage different hormones to allow the body to burn more calories.

Exercise does the same. Cardio uses your leg muscles primarily to burn calories, as does weightlifting. weightlifting has the advantage that it will lead to muscle gain, and the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn.

What's quackery about that?
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