Voyager - What if...?

[Guy Gardener]

I don't know Liz, or her views, but this is what Kate Mulgrew's moral input did to the show'... Kathryn is a born again virgin with her legs glued shut.

The most opposite thing Liz could have arranged was to have given Berman permission to let Shelby slut it up making it open season on her cooch.

"It's the 24h century. Women are not oppressed. It's not a miracle that a woman is captain and I didn't have to work twice as hard as a man to get here, there is equality, and my sexuality is not seen as a weakness or a liability, I want to make out with the weirdest looking aliens your makeup department can invent just like Shater, you want equality, make me as big a whore as Shatner... I want evil alien Captains not to destroy my ship because they want to fuck me and I have enough guile to string them along and suggest that that's entirely a possibility until some one in engineering fixes the damn warp drive and we can run. I like sex, and I think Shelby likes sex as much as I do, and I may never have lived in my car but Shelby can't have a long term stable relationsip with anyone since the ship is always in motion running away from whoever Shelby might be contemplating falling in love with... It's impossible for her to get a third date! Fist date wham bamm is the only option."

Or Liz Dennehy could have entirely the same opinions on sex in the workplace as Mulgrew.

[R. Star]

teacake wrote:

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And everyone would have been happy

I can't imagine her putting up with anything that came out of Neelix's mouth either.

I wouldn't see her ever trusting Neelix after that whole lying and getting them captured scheme he pulled in Caretaker. He'd have been on his way after that one.... ooh the possibilities!

[teacake]

The thing is it's Starfleet that is all hinky about the sex. Lots of workplace rules leads to an atmosphere where people feeling free about their sexuality is seen as potentially boundary pushing. There's a cascade effect to that workplace morality, if you can't do it with your closest friends you sure can't do it with aliens without being looked at askance. So in order for Shelby to not have any preoccupations about how it looks to have liaisons with aliens she has to be bucking the system she's steeped in.

[Guy Gardener]

Caring about how things look to assholes, above your own happiness, is not how you live a complete life.

As the Doctor said "Your only option is passing alien Captains."

[Bry_Sinclair]

Melakon wrote:

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I suspect Tuvok didn't become First Officer because producers didn't want to veer too closely to Spock allusions. And considering how some people around here think Janeway fought the Borg too many times, would we have given up completely if Captain Shelby went gunning for Borg as early as first season?

After Shelby got done with the Borg in Scorpion Part 1, they'd know she was major badass and would leave her alone. That way they wouldn't need to bring Seven on (or if they did make the character a hot male walking around in silver bodypaint).

teacake wrote:

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And everyone would have been happy

I can't imagine her putting up with anything that came out of Neelix's mouth either.

Firstly, speak for yourself, I don't need to see a Shelby/Torres relationship . They would play off well against each other, but I don't see it going into anything more intimate. Perhaps though, since they are both strong-willed and forceful women they would find they had more in common and Shelby could take a more mentoring role with Torres (just a thought).

Secondly, I think she would have kicked Neelix off at the end of Caretaker--unless the character was vastly rewritten into someone far more likeable.

[Guy Gardener]

Shelby is all about weapons.

Janeway couldn't build new torpedoes.

Shelby would have a full compliment of tricobolt missiles.

Janeway built an airponics bay.

Shelby would be making new phaser batteries.

Janeway gives fair warning.

Shelby finishes fights before the other guy has had his morning coffee.

Imagine Kazon Coffee.

You need some better inspiration to seek out the Alpha quadrant?

[Gotham Central]

At first I thought that it would not have made a difference, but if they'd managed to keep all of her TNG traits in tact it could have made a huge difference.

The most significant being that I doubt they would have pushed Shelby into the role of being everyone's mom. She would have been more commanding officer. That alone would have been a BIG improvement over what we got. I love the idea of having a female captain that is no nonsense and not in anykind of mood to play someone's parent.

As for her relationship with Torres, it could have been interesting for her to have the sort of mentor relationship similar to what we saw on BSG between Admiral Cain and Starbuck.

[R. Star]

Picard and Riker never had a problem getting together with subordinates.

Picard was with Crusher and Daren.
Riker had Troi and was often seen flirting or at a table with other subordinate officers.

So the concept that Starfleet is high and mighty about fraternization with subordinates is baseless. Even a strickler like Picard loosened up now and again.

So the concept that Starfleet forbids it, is baseless even if it's frowned upon. Sisko never did, but he never had a random female officer of the week hit on him. To say nothing of his widower issues the first half of the show, and the abundance of civilians at his posting. Turns out he married one. So he can't really count.

Janeway could have hooked up with Chakotay or anyone else if she wanted, she actively -chose- not to based on her image concerns.

[Melakon]

R. Star wrote:

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Janeway could have hooked up with Chakotay or anyone else if she wanted. . .

Harry must have turned her down, which is why he never found a little box of lieutenant pins on his chair.

[R. Star]

Melakon wrote:

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Harry must have turned her down, which is why he never found a little box of lieutenant pins on his chair.

So -that- is how Tom got his lieutenant rank back so quick! Janeway fondly recalled how he rocked her world in Threshold!

[teacake]

Or he got his extra pips to keep him quiet.

[Guy Gardener]

Melakon wrote:

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Harry must have turned her down, which is why he never found a little box of lieutenant pins on his chair.

The bigger problem is the little pins between his legs.

[teacake]

Someone will finish the sewing up eventually.

[Guy Gardener]

In my head when I constructed the joke "pips" made a lot more sense, however the quote referencing "pins" had me backed into a corner.

"Sigh"

The Haunting of Deck 12 was nothing but Neelix telling the kids a scary story during a power cut.

That's pretty cool.

[Dale Sams]

R. Star wrote:

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^
Who knows? They have a pre-established character background to call upon, and by all accounts Jeri Taylor may not have had the same "heroine worship" for Shelby that she had for Janeway that let to so many absurd episodes.

Besides... I just want to see Captain Shelby for that brief snippet of Riker in Death Wish.

"Oh hello Commander," Shelby said with a smirk, "please cooperate and testify for Q. That's an order, and if you think about giving me any lip, I'll snap you back so hard you'll think you're a first officer again... oh wait, you still are!"

Riker: "I love you."

Realisticlly, if we use a WW2 analogy...by the end of the Dominion War, ENSIGNS we saw in season 2 of DS9 would have their own ships.

As I said in another thread, Lit aside, Enterprise-E must have become the USS-Bob Hope .