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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 15 2013, 08:04 AM   #46
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

R. Star wrote: View Post
The plot wanted a smart kid on the ship and a little detail like age doesn't matter. The same thing happened with Alexander coming out of the womb 3 feet tall in TNG, and being fully grown by 12 in DS9.
Sounds more like an Eriksen baby than a House of Mogh baby.

Same birth canal doing the acting, whatever.
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Old January 15 2013, 07:41 PM   #47
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

teacake wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I wish I had her childhood.

NO SCHOOL. No little shits tormenting me.. interesting adults who went out of their way to interact with me to make my childhood a positive experience. Important impressive people like the Captain full of good will about my development. ADVENTURE. Never having to go shopping. Lots of books and holoprograms and the best windows ever in any childhood to look out of.
The only problem with those windows is that it's lethal to go outside without a space suit. I grew up on an acreage, with no other kids around. So while I did have problems interacting with other kids (terminally shy), at least I had the outdoors. Naomi didn't have that unless she got to have shore leave with the rest of the crew (the holodeck just isn't the same).
Going outside is overrated especially in an age of holodecks. They look pretty realistic to me. Too pleasant and lacking in wild weather and thorns? Well so is earth these days.
Being outside is more about how it looks. I rather doubt a holodeck would accurately depict how outside smells, feels, sounds, and even tastes. Being outside is about the senses and relating to nature as an integral part of it. No holodeck could provide that.
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Old January 15 2013, 10:33 PM   #48
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

I think they are supposed to do just that, breezes, scents, sun temperature.
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Old January 15 2013, 11:05 PM   #49
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

According to Riker in Encounter at far point, depending on the program surely, most of the holodeck is replicated detritus.
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Old January 15 2013, 11:37 PM   #50
Timewalker
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

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I think they are supposed to do just that, breezes, scents, sun temperature.
But it's FAKE. As in Not Real. I would defy any holodeck to recreate the sounds and smells of my favorite places to the extent that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Unless the holodeck is telepathic, it's IMPOSSIBLE.
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Old January 16 2013, 12:26 AM   #51
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

TNG Homeward.

http://www.trektoday.com/episodes/tn...homeward.shtml

DS9 Inquisition where Bashir with all his genetically enhanced senses was fooled by a holodeck for three days.
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Old January 16 2013, 02:12 AM   #52
R. Star
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I think they are supposed to do just that, breezes, scents, sun temperature.
But it's FAKE. As in Not Real. I would defy any holodeck to recreate the sounds and smells of my favorite places to the extent that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Unless the holodeck is telepathic, it's IMPOSSIBLE.
Tons of instances where people haven't been able to tell the difference. Of course by that logic, replicators shouldn't be able to emulate real food because it's FAKE!

Really though, it's kind of silly to argue the nuances of a fictional technology none of us have experienced. We just have to go with what we see on screen and as Guy points out, everyone else has been fooled a number of times. Paris and Kim even got drunk at Sandrine's off of holographic booze one episode.
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Old January 16 2013, 02:24 AM   #53
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

jpch wrote: View Post
Well solitude has a major impact of people especially children,but with the Holodeck i don't think it is a problem,in addition the military concept of Starfleet will inhibit the maladjusted child,it is seen that in many families with fathers in the military children grow either excessively organized and socially aware or have major ADD.

Also a fact to consider that Naomi has never seen any other children,she has no emotional needs to be with any,the concept of ''reinforcement'' applies,in this case a neutral reinforcement.(excluding the Holodeck)

Psychologically speaking it hard to know if Naomi has issues at that time in her life,we usually observe issues like this starting form the age of 13+.
The holodeck is fully under your control. It's kind of like how in video games like Mass Effect, the fate of the entire universe is solely based on your decisions. It's not the same as dealing with actual children your age.

Although I suppose there should have been children other than Naomi on Voyager. No way those 150 people all used protection. She could have had normal social interaction with those kids who should have existed and developed more or less normally.

And what I posted on the first page has nothing to do with estrogen and everything to do with growing up without having to make compromises to get along with people. The equivalent male would probably interpret any sexual refusal as a personal attack.
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Old January 16 2013, 03:07 AM   #54
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I think they are supposed to do just that, breezes, scents, sun temperature.
But it's FAKE. As in Not Real. I would defy any holodeck to recreate the sounds and smells of my favorite places to the extent that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Unless the holodeck is telepathic, it's IMPOSSIBLE.
Tons of instances where people haven't been able to tell the difference. Of course by that logic, replicators shouldn't be able to emulate real food because it's FAKE!

Really though, it's kind of silly to argue the nuances of a fictional technology none of us have experienced. We just have to go with what we see on screen and as Guy points out, everyone else has been fooled a number of times. Paris and Kim even got drunk at Sandrine's off of holographic booze one episode.
Agreed.
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Old January 16 2013, 04:51 AM   #55
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Re: Why wasn't Naomi more socially maladjusted?

You might be able to detect the difference if you had intimately known a place for many years and if the program was a bit off.. maybe. Because places themselves aren't static. We know without thinking about it that just because the ocean we've been visiting every day for years smells a little more or less oceany-y one day that it is still familiar. Our brains don't expect everything to be static in a familiar environment and it seems a well done program can fool even those most familiar with the surroundings, for a while at least.

And we aren't even talking about being able to go home. We're just talking about going outside. Dump me in a holodeck outside in a place I don't know, say Montana or Bajor or Queensland and I'm going to feel happily and wonderfully outside. A native of the place might have a little comment about their being rather a lot of clover scent in the air for the time of year but I'd be none the wiser.
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Last edited by teacake; January 16 2013 at 05:03 AM.
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