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Old January 15 2013, 06:55 PM   #16
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

I think that "Klingon Warbird" snuck into a Phase II fan film, and they're the most hardcore of the hardcore fans, shows that it is in fact NOT such an impossible goof to make.
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Old January 15 2013, 06:58 PM   #17
C.E. Evans
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

Forbin wrote: View Post
I really hate that the Enterprise writers were too stupid to remember that "warbird" referred to one specific Romulan vessel in TNG, and now we're stuck with it as a Klingon reference.
The design is also referred to as a Klingon warbird in Star Trek XI.
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Old January 15 2013, 07:03 PM   #18
USS Einstein
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

I have no problem with that.

In ENT, it was a little stupid, just because it's so well known.

But now that JJ Abrams' Trek XI has made it canon, it works out fine.
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Old January 15 2013, 07:13 PM   #19
Shawnster
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

I blame Harve Bennett and Star Trek III. Kruge and the BOP were originally supposed to be Romulan. The story goes that Bennett changed the enemy to Klingons, since they were the original enemy species.

Whole mess has been muddied up ever since.
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Old January 15 2013, 07:19 PM   #20
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

King Daniel wrote: View Post
IMO they're different designations for what's meant to be the same ship. In real life, they just made a model with more detail.

Voyager explicitly called a K'tinga-class ship a D7 in "Prophecy". The undetailed D7 was given the same patterning as the K'tinga in "Trials and Tribble-ations" and TOS-Remastered's new CG.

Saying they're different classes is like insisting Saavik underwent extensive plastic surgery between STII and III to explain away her recasting.
However looking at USN and RN warships over the past century you get the impression that the slightest change only recognizable to professional sailors was needed to have an entirely new class of ship or even change a designation from frigate to destroyer to cruiser
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Old January 15 2013, 07:21 PM   #21
USS Einstein
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

Shawnster wrote: View Post
I blame Harve Bennett and Star Trek III. Kruge and the BOP were originally supposed to be Romulan. The story goes that Bennett changed the enemy to Klingons, since they were the original enemy species.

Whole mess has been muddied up ever since.
I don't mind that either.

The Klingons had some cool music in Star Trek III - sounded like Tibetan horns/trumpets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIEqiCPiMNc
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Old January 15 2013, 11:53 PM   #22
Unicron
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

Personally, I'm kind of mixed. I generally have tended to regard them as essentially being the same design, and I don't consider the TMP modifications to be that great of a chance compared to how the Enterprise was updated. I recall hearing at some point that one reason the movie Enterprise kept the "Constitution class" moniker was at Gene's insistence, because he didn't like the idea of "replacing" the original ship.

However, that being said, I recently have been getting some of the old FASA stuff and I'm a bit more comfortable with the D7 designation being the specific type, and the two versions being separate models of that type. FASA said that the K'Tinga name only applied to one specific model, and that other variants had different names. I've seen the names Klolode and Klothos suggested for the TOS model, so I don't mind including those as specific variants of the D7 class.
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Old January 16 2013, 02:23 AM   #23
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

Shawnster wrote: View Post
I blame Harve Bennett and Star Trek III. Kruge and the BOP were originally supposed to be Romulan. The story goes that Bennett changed the enemy to Klingons, since they were the original enemy species.

Whole mess has been muddied up ever since.
I agree with you except I remember reading back then that one of the reasons for changing the enemy from Romulans to Klingons was because it was thought that the Romulans looked too much like Vulcans to the average movie going audiences that were not Star Trek fans. So to avoid this confusion the Romulan enemy was changed to Klingon. However, I cannot find anything on the internet to support this.

The closest related thing I could find is from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_3):
Originally, the Romulans were the villains, but Nimoy preferred the more "theatrical" Klingons,[20] feeling that their pursuit of Genesis was analogous to the Soviet race for nuclear weaponry.[15]

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Old January 16 2013, 06:01 AM   #24
Nerys Myk
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
I really hate that the Enterprise writers were too stupid to remember that "warbird" referred to one specific Romulan vessel in TNG, and now we're stuck with it as a Klingon reference.
The design is also referred to as a Klingon warbird in Star Trek XI.
John M. Ford's The Final Reflection refers to Klingon ships as "Warbirds" way back in 1984.
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Old January 16 2013, 02:45 PM   #25
Forbin
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

EVERYbody's wrong!!!!
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Old January 16 2013, 05:53 PM   #26
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
I really hate that the Enterprise writers were too stupid to remember that "warbird" referred to one specific Romulan vessel in TNG, and now we're stuck with it as a Klingon reference.
The design is also referred to as a Klingon warbird in Star Trek XI.
John M. Ford's The Final Reflection refers to Klingon ships as "Warbirds" way back in 1984.
Good thing books aren't canon.
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Old January 16 2013, 07:38 PM   #27
Nerys Myk
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The design is also referred to as a Klingon warbird in Star Trek XI.
John M. Ford's The Final Reflection refers to Klingon ships as "Warbirds" way back in 1984.
Good thing books aren't canon.
True. But Ford's book is usually thought of as "Klingons done right", probably by some of the folks who shout "Canon violation!!!!!" at Klingon Warbirds.
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Old January 16 2013, 07:52 PM   #28
Star Wolf
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
John M. Ford's The Final Reflection refers to Klingon ships as "Warbirds" way back in 1984.
Good thing books aren't canon.
True. But Ford's book is usually thought of as "Klingons done right", probably by some of the folks who shout "Canon violation!!!!!" at Klingon Warbirds.
It was more generational I think. Those of us who watched the 72 episodes over and over on syndication had that book before TNG came around to change everything.
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Old January 16 2013, 08:21 PM   #29
Nerys Myk
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post

Good thing books aren't canon.
True. But Ford's book is usually thought of as "Klingons done right", probably by some of the folks who shout "Canon violation!!!!!" at Klingon Warbirds.
It was more generational I think. Those of us who watched the 72 episodes over and over on syndication had that book before TNG came around to change everything.
Though I'm one of the "72ers" and have been reading Treklit since the Blish days, I've only just read "The Final Reflection". I think I tried to read it when it first came out, but put it down. Which is pretty rare for me. Reading it in 2012 was a bit surreal, as I had to push everything that has developed with the Klingons over the last four or so decades to the back of my mind to enjoy the book without having a nerd meltdown .
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Old January 16 2013, 10:06 PM   #30
JoeZhang
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Re: Is the Klingon D7 Class and K'Tinga Class Battlecruiser the same s

I watched all of TNG and DS9 first and was talking to a friend about how much I hated on-screen klingons

"Honour!" "Where is your honour!" "GRRRRRR"

Yeah, yeah.. fuck your honour and the horse it rode on in.


Anyway.. he gave me a copy of the book and I read it and loved it.
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