Orci again claims new series in pre-development

[Nick Ryder]

Well I think in some ways, using the 'nuTrek'-verse in any kind of animated or live action tv show might be a bit... rough. Considering that so far we've only had one and soon two live action movies in this universe. You don't want people bitching that 'the goddamn cartooon's canon was already violated by the movie canon" or vice versa.

I think really, the easiest thing would be to set it in the Trek universe we've known and loved, maybe still go back to Kirk and Spock days, but Shatner/Nimoy Kirk and Spock. Or shoot ahead to Post-Nemesis - there's still a lot of ground to cover between the end of Nemesis and nuTrek. And if you make it animated, then you don't need to worry about the expense of a large cast or all new sets - I for one would love to see some indepth look at the Romulans and their culture, a little more on some of the more nebulous races like the Breen.

I wouldn't really want it on something like Showtime - since really Showtime doesn't do animation anymore, neither does HBO. FX probably would be the most logical choice really - it's still cable but they've got Archer and if it's a bit more 'adult', you could even argue with a show like Sons of Anarchy, they can get away with a lot too. Market it the same way they do Archer, which is hardly a kid's show. Get some good animation teams on it - doesn't have to be CGI, except maybe for the ship battles - hire a decent Anime company to do it. Certainly not Madhouse. Tell them not to do the typical "Anime' tropes of big robots, big hair, have everything set in Japan... just tell a good, stylish, well done Star Trek story. I'm sure someone could do it, reasonably, get good VA talent. Hell, it's voice over, they could afford Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner here and there - if those two can do silly stuff like Family Guy, I'm sure they can't be all that expensive to hire back for Trek.

Beauty of it is, they don't even really need to go anywhere, they could literally phone it in. Isn't technology grand!

[Sindatur]

Nick, the popular belief is that the most likely, earliest scenario for a Series (Animated or otherwise), is that once STID proves it's a money maker, that could lead to commissioning of the Series, and that Series would be slated to begin to air right after the 3rd movie (Which is what JJ signed on for, was 3 movies) is released, so it could ride the steam of the whole Trilogy. If this is the way it went down, there would be concern about the movies of the Series contradicting each other's canon because both were airing at the same time.

[AviTrek]

Nick Ryder wrote:

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Well I think in some ways, using the 'nuTrek'-verse in any kind of animated or live action tv show might be a bit... rough. Considering that so far we've only had one and soon two live action movies in this universe. You don't want people bitching that 'the goddamn cartooon's canon was already violated by the movie canon" or vice versa.

I think really, the easiest thing would be to set it in the Trek universe we've known and loved, maybe still go back to Kirk and Spock days, but Shatner/Nimoy Kirk and Spock. Or shoot ahead to Post-Nemesis - there's still a lot of ground to cover between the end of Nemesis and nuTrek. And if you make it animated, then you don't need to worry about the expense of a large cast or all new sets - I for one would love to see some indepth look at the Romulans and their culture, a little more on some of the more nebulous races like the Breen.

I wouldn't really want it on something like Showtime - since really Showtime doesn't do animation anymore, neither does HBO. FX probably would be the most logical choice really - it's still cable but they've got Archer and if it's a bit more 'adult', you could even argue with a show like Sons of Anarchy, they can get away with a lot too. Market it the same way they do Archer, which is hardly a kid's show. Get some good animation teams on it - doesn't have to be CGI, except maybe for the ship battles - hire a decent Anime company to do it. Certainly not Madhouse. Tell them not to do the typical "Anime' tropes of big robots, big hair, have everything set in Japan... just tell a good, stylish, well done Star Trek story. I'm sure someone could do it, reasonably, get good VA talent. Hell, it's voice over, they could afford Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner here and there - if those two can do silly stuff like Family Guy, I'm sure they can't be all that expensive to hire back for Trek.

Beauty of it is, they don't even really need to go anywhere, they could literally phone it in. Isn't technology grand!

Sorry, but only the fringe minority of fans care about "canon". By far the easiest thing to do is tell the most compelling stories. Don't worry about classic Trek vs. JJ Trek. It might as well be a new universe entirely. The canon natzi's will complain no matter what you do, and the average fan will tune out unless you make the story compelling.

[Temis the Vorta]

I still think that an animated series would be pitched to kids, 9-12 years old. A live action series would be pitched to adults, as long as it was on cable and had the expected levels of sex and violence. A Star Trek animated series pitched at adults seems like a long shot. All the adult animated series I can think of are comedies, so where's the successful template to follow?

Star Trek on TV will be a different animal from Star Trek in movies and previous TV incarnations. The ecosystem that supported the old style of series (episodic, family friendly) has vanished for niche genres like space opera.

Movies are also very different from TV, and have become ever more cartoony and action oriented. Whatever the new TV series turns out to be, it will be crafted to fit into an existing ecosystem - kids cartoons, adult political or violence oriented serialized fantasy. Hopefully it can also retain its core identity, but don't expect anything like TOS or TNG to ever return. There's no place for that anywhere anymore. Even DS9 would be too sanitized and too episodic for the tastes of cable audiences today.

robau wrote:

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Clone Wars works(or worked until this season) because it's not meant to inspire the real world the way Star Trek does.

Star Trek is not required to "inspire the real world." It's nice when that happens, but its purpose in life is just to make $$$ for Paramount or CBS shareholders. A kid's cartoon could do that perfectly well. And maybe it will inspire kids, they're part of the real world too.

[robau]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Star Trek is not required to "inspire the real world." It's nice when that happens, but its purpose in life is just to make $$$ for Paramount or CBS shareholders. A kid's cartoon could do that perfectly well. And maybe it will inspire kids, they're part of the real world too.

Cynical BS. I don't care if the kids get their cartoon. That's fine. But it's no substitution for a proper series.

[bullethead]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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I still think that an animated series would be pitched to kids, 9-12 years old. A live action series would be pitched to adults, as long as it was on cable and had the expected levels of sex and violence. A Star Trek animated series pitched at adults seems like a long shot. All the adult animated series I can think of are comedies, so where's the successful template to follow?

Depends on what you mean by "successful". In terms of writing, you've got Tron: Uprising, which successfully manages to write up to an adult level (despite being aimed at kids) and avoids most of the pitfalls of post-Lost genre shows. If you're talking financially, there is none, because no one has intentionally tried to make an animated show for the adult demographic. Not even anime does that (otherwise you'd see more stuff with adult protagonists). Sure, going with an adult demographic is a bit of a risk, but with all those Toonami era kids who grew up watching scifi/fantasy anime (and possibly scifi cartoons on other channels), there's at least a segment of the population open to an animated scifi show and probably would support it as long as it wasn't horribly written/produced.

Movies are also very different from TV, and have become ever more cartoony and action oriented. Whatever the new TV series turns out to be, it will be crafted to fit into an existing ecosystem - kids cartoons, adult political or violence oriented serialized fantasy. Hopefully it can also retain its core identity, but don't expect anything like TOS or TNG to ever return. There's no place for that anywhere anymore. Even DS9 would be too sanitized and too episodic for the tastes of cable audiences today.

I dunno - DS9's level of serialization seemed about on par with USA's cable dramas (or at least when Burn Notice started - the shows got more serialized as they went on). That said, I don't think a lower level of serialization would hurt a new Trek show as much as poor writing in terms of characters, episode plots, and arcs would. That's the stuff that hooks viewers in and keeps them watching, not the amount of serialization in the show.

[jpch]

Ian Keldon wrote:

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From ICN news:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KxLg0fCRvM

omg!!! thx for the link but i am sad its animated.

[jpch]

AviTrek wrote:

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Sorry, but only the fringe minority of fans care about "canon". By far the easiest thing to do is tell the most compelling stories. Don't worry about classic Trek vs. JJ Trek. It might as well be a new universe entirely. The canon natzi's will complain no matter what you do, and the average fan will tune out unless you make the story compelling.

hahahaha i don't think i ever heard something more realistic.

[Nagisa Furukawa]

robau wrote:

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Sorry, I can't be onboard for any sort of cartoon. Star Trek is about displaying what mankind is capable of. I don't care how pretty the animation is, it can't even begin to capture the spirit of Trek. There has to be real people and sets and props.

Go watch Neon Genesis Evangelion and tell me animation can't display what mankind is capable of.

[Temis the Vorta]

robau wrote:

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Cynical BS. I don't care if the kids get their cartoon. That's fine. But it's no substitution for a proper series.

It's cynical but it's far from BS. In fact, I don't think it's cynical so much as just realistic. The entertainment biz is not noted for making social responsibility a high priority in what they actually produce (as opposed to what they put in their press releases.)

Depends on what you mean by "successful".

I meant financially successful, since that's the one factor that determines everything. The likely outlets for a live action series are places like Showtime, HBO and Netflix - where high quality will be rewarded - so I'm really not concerned about that factor.

If a live action series gets made at all, it's likely to be good, but good in a way that Star Trek hasn't ever been to date - more complex, more adult. And that's going to piss some people off.

If you're talking financially, there is none, because no one has intentionally tried to make an animated show for the adult demographic.

That's why I keep saying, "if it's animated, it's for kids. If it's live action, it's for grownups and many fans who expect it to be in the old broadcast style will be very angry about the result."

I dunno - DS9's level of serialization seemed about on par with USA's cable dramas (or at least when Burn Notice started - the shows got more serialized as they went on).

I don't expect it to be on USA, because that's the wrong audience. USA does no sci fi at all. (I think I saw a story about a sci fi ish series in development for them, but that's a long ways from them doing a space opera. USA would be far more likely to do one of those shows about cops hunting ghosts or vampires where one of the partners is a ghost or vampire, and for shows of that type, semi-serialization is just fine.)

The level of serialization will be determined by what viewers of the channel its on are used to. The most likely outlets for live action are channels where heavy serialization is the norm. Or, if it's a kids cartoon on The Cartoon Network, it might opt for serialized sequences of two, three or four episodes in a half hour format.

[Ronald Held]

Does it need to be economic ally successful in its initial run or after years of syndication?

[Temis the Vorta]

On HBO, Showtime or AMC, a series would get more leeway to develop. They aren't so dependent on ad revenues so the tyranny of the Nielsens, where shows get cancelled if they bomb on the premiere, isn't so much of a factor. A live action space opera will have a bigger than usual budget and so will be under unusual pressure to perform.

I don't think syndication is much of a factor for shows of that ilk anymore. There is an ongoing revenue stream potential in streaming. There's no reason why a show that's already reached its primary audience on cable can't make more money on Netflix, hulu, etc. The key is timing the releases right to avoid cannibalization of the audience.

In other words, figure out the maximum amount each viewer will pay to get the show a certain amount of time quicker, and then let the audience sort themselves into each audience, with the tradeoff being money vs time. The entertainment biz is in the process of figuring out what this equation is, exactly. You can see the repercussions in news of companies doing deals with Netflix et al.

[AviTrek]

Ronald Held wrote:

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Does it need to be economic ally successful in its initial run or after years of syndication?

Initial run. The magic number for syndication used to be 100 episodes. It seems to have dropped to closer to 80 recently, but if a show is not economically successful in its first season it will never make it to 80 episodes.

Temis is right that HBO/Showtime/Netflix may not care about ratings as much as CBS/TNT, but if they don't feel the show is attracting enough subscribers to justify its cost, then the show will still be canceled long before it reaches syndication. It seems like the production companies have been willing to take a one year hit in revenue to get over the syndication hump, but asking a studio/network to lose money for 4+ years for the hope of future syndication revenue is not going to fly.