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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 13 2013, 11:23 PM   #736
Shazam!
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
This thread is so full of fail that I'm literally slamming my face on my desk. Yes, my nose does hurt, and an eye isn't doing too well either.

Absolutely, Star Trek needed a reboot. The forest was dead; it was time to burn it down and start anew. Any attempt to revitalize it in any other way would have been fruitless and futile. Saplings cannot grow in the infertile soil.

The problem is some seem to cling to the idea that it's their forest like little Gollums frolicking about the bush with their preciouses--their copies of "The Man Trap" on Betamax. (Though I hear laserDisc is also accepted in some circles.) Anything that intrudes on their turf is pelted with pebbles of rancor that have little or no weight. They're just really fucking annoying.

The most common stones are pulled from the quarry and labeled with words like "silly," "plot holes," "unintelligent" "not the real characters," et cetera.

Time to pick up the rocks and throw 'em back.

Silly: This ingenious igneous is probably my favorite. This little guy, which is often tossed about the room by the high-brow pundits who think they're careful, thinks it is primed for window piercing. But it usually just shatters mirrors. As it rolls aimlessly over the shards, we realize it really only as smart as the box it came from.

Here's the thing: Star Trek is silly! Remember that one time at band camp when the guy in the yellow pajamas was jumping around Styrofoam rocks in the desert judo-chopping the guy in the green rubber-suit?

Then there was that other time the guy in the gray pajamas started ranting about gazelles. But it's best to just forget about that one.

The silliness is what makes Star Trek so awesome. It's why people adore it. Complaining about it is only going to result in a full dose of facepalm.

Plot holes: This dunite of dunces is also a favorite of those in glass houses who selectively forget they live in one.

Star Trek movies have plot holes. All of them. Name a Trek film, and I'll name ten plot holes. Yet some like to selectively ignore the ones running rampant in the films they like and relentlessly attack the ones in the films they don't.

Unintelligent: This pumice of peugh wreaks. It is the defecation of the smug who think that if the pile gets big enough, the rest of us will get sick of the stench and come over to their side. Usually, though, it just stinks up the room and we all leave.

It's the argument that gets cited the most often, and most of us are sick of hearing it.

It's one thing to advocate for a smart Trek film. I do so myself quite often. But I realize both the current artistic environment and economic climate of the industry allow little room for such a film. And I know shitting on those that aren't the brightest bulbs would be utterly pointless because they're are so many of them. I'd have to squeeze out every last kernel only to end up constipated.

Let's face it, Star Trek films aren't exactly Shakespeare. Hell, half of them struggle to be Dr. Seuss. In fact, of the eleven films, only one dared give us a glimpse of its cerebellum, and it was censured for it.

And here, too, some selective memory surfaces. Let's take the holy trinity of Trek films for example:

TWOK: One giant contrivance.
TUC: Also one giant contrivance.
FC: Stricken by Sharks with Freakin' Lasers Syndrome.

When you get right down to it, all three are about as dumb as a box of ... well, you get the idea. And really I don't care because my compassion for something is not limited to my estimate of its intelligence. Instead, I grab my diet coke and popcorn and enjoy the show.

Granted, I do ridicule TWOK relentlessly, but that's only because it drives me bonkers that it seems to get a free pass. Most Trek fans act like it's some great work of intellectual cinema when it's really stupid as shit. But I still love it. I've seen it more than any other Trek film, and that'll probably never change because it's just so much damn fun.

But I think of ST09 as exactly the same in that regard. It too is stupid as shit. And it too is a lot of damn fun. But carrying doggy bags when in comes to TWOK and leaving a mess when with ST09 is hypocritical. And I'm sick of it.

Not the real characters™: The big fat boulder is a non-starter. It's too big for anyone to actually push anywhere. So it just sits there until gravity takes over and rolls down the hill the wrong way.

Characters, in a tangible sense, are nothing more than a few squiggles on paper. This is true for both literary and dramatic characters. Sometimes those boundaries overlap (hence my previous Hamlet example), but that doesn't change how they're perceived whether it be readers, actors, or an audience.

With literary characters, it's readers who interpret and develop the characters in their minds' eyes. However, we would never suggest one's interpretation or vision of a character is more "true" or "accurate" or "real" than another's.

It's the exact same for actors interpretation and vision for dramatic characters. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp.
TL;DR
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Old January 14 2013, 02:26 AM   #737
F. King Daniel
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Lies. He read it. I can tell.
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Old January 14 2013, 02:54 AM   #738
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

When was Trek rebooted? Last I saw, it was another entry in the franchise that took place in an alternate reality.

Last edited by Amasov; January 14 2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Old January 14 2013, 05:11 AM   #739
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

How can there be an "alternate reality" to something that isn't real to begin with?

What they've done is justify restarting the continuity of Star Trek over again from the point of its beginning - Kirk, Spock and the other crew serving aboard the Enterprise - by a plot contrivance which lets viewers attached to oldTrek say to themselves that the old continuity is not being ignored.

This is a reboot.
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Old January 14 2013, 05:57 AM   #740
Dale Sams
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
BeatleJWOL wrote: View Post
"Man, Star Trek is pretty awful, isn't it; but it's still fun, I guess, so y'all just need to relax."
You'll have to excuse me, but can you indicate where I said that?
Sorry, calling TWOK 'stupid' completly invalidated your very long, well-thought out post.

And I'm not even referring to the stuff most people praise. The scene in Kirk's apartment alone makes the film damn, damn good.

And before you respond, remember one can make *anything* sound stupid if you sneer enough.

"Psssssh...'Godfather'...should be 'OhGAWDfather'...amirite?"

And I'm with Spiner on why Trek failed. It wasn't cause Frakes didn't direct Nemesis. It wasn't because Insurrection and Generations sucked (Psst, I liked Generations). It was "Because the fans were tired of us"*. Star Trek survived The Final Frontier FFS.

*Throw in a healthy dollop of bad buzz too Brent. People were bashing the film for months before it opened. Berman didn't kill Star Trek. Enterprise didn't kill Star Trek...WE KILLED STAR TREK.
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Old January 14 2013, 06:36 AM   #741
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
*Throw in a healthy dollop of bad buzz too Brent. People were bashing the film for months before it opened. Berman didn't kill Star Trek. Enterprise didn't kill Star Trek...WE KILLED STAR TREK.
Who says STAR TREK is dead? Seems alive and well to me.
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Old January 14 2013, 06:53 AM   #742
YARN
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
What they've done is justify restarting the continuity of Star Trek over again from the point of its beginning - Kirk, Spock and the other crew serving aboard the Enterprise - by a plot contrivance which lets viewers attached to oldTrek say to themselves that the old continuity is not being ignored.

This is a reboot.
Of course it was a reboot. Indeed, I would have preferred a direct reboot without any pandering to the sensitivities surrounding these "realities" (e.g., promising fans that TNG, a fictional reality, was still "real.").
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Old January 14 2013, 07:25 AM   #743
Dale Sams
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
*Throw in a healthy dollop of bad buzz too Brent. People were bashing the film for months before it opened. Berman didn't kill Star Trek. Enterprise didn't kill Star Trek...WE KILLED STAR TREK.
Who says STAR TREK is dead? Seems alive and well to me.
You mean Frankentrek?

Just kidding.
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Old January 14 2013, 07:26 AM   #744
Dale Sams
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

YARN wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
What they've done is justify restarting the continuity of Star Trek over again from the point of its beginning - Kirk, Spock and the other crew serving aboard the Enterprise - by a plot contrivance which lets viewers attached to oldTrek say to themselves that the old continuity is not being ignored.

This is a reboot.
Of course it was a reboot. Indeed, I would have preferred a direct reboot without any pandering to the sensitivities surrounding these "realities" (e.g., promising fans that TNG, a fictional reality, was still "real.").
Was that for the videogame?
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Old January 14 2013, 07:35 AM   #745
T'Cal
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Before the 2009 film's success, my desire was to have Trek return to syndicated TV more as a 24th century show than strictly a TNG show. I have to admit that the reboot breathed new life into the franchise. I just hope that the Next Gen era is not done and that it returns in some form.
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Old January 14 2013, 07:49 AM   #746
YARN
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
YARN wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
What they've done is justify restarting the continuity of Star Trek over again from the point of its beginning - Kirk, Spock and the other crew serving aboard the Enterprise - by a plot contrivance which lets viewers attached to oldTrek say to themselves that the old continuity is not being ignored.

This is a reboot.
Of course it was a reboot. Indeed, I would have preferred a direct reboot without any pandering to the sensitivities surrounding these "realities" (e.g., promising fans that TNG, a fictional reality, was still "real.").
Was that for the videogame?
Hmmmm? Not sure if serious....

My recollection is that of conciliatory interviews given by Orci assuring fans that they had not changed or erased the reality of TNG and everything that came after, that nuTrek was a branch connected to it, but separate from it so that no changes to the new timeline would "invalidate" what happened in prior shows.
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Old January 14 2013, 07:57 AM   #747
CorporalClegg
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
t alone makes the film damn, damn good.

And before you respond, remember one can make *anything* sound stupid if you sneer enough.

"Psssssh...'Godfather'...should be 'OhGAWDfather'...amirite?"
Not sure what connection you're trying make, but sneering has nothing to do with it. WOK is conceptually weak. Its entire plot teeters over a massive chasm of contrivance. It relies heavily on wizardry to create (and resolve) conflict. And the wishy-washy theme stumbles in several parts to the inevitable point where the conceit contradicts the set-up.

The story is moving; the drama is engaging; the action is snappy; the moral strikes a chord; Montalban is a BAMF, all that stuff. But to appreciate any of that, you pretty much have to turn your brain off the second Chekov flips the belt buckle and realizes he's a double dumbass who's forgetful and can't count to six.
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Old January 14 2013, 08:11 AM   #748
Dale Sams
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
t alone makes the film damn, damn good.

And before you respond, remember one can make *anything* sound stupid if you sneer enough.

"Psssssh...'Godfather'...should be 'OhGAWDfather'...amirite?"
Not sure what connection you're trying make, but sneering has nothing to do with it. WOK is conceptually weak. Its entire plot teeters over a massive chasm of contrivance. It relies heavily on wizardry to create (and resolve) conflict. And the wishy-washy theme stumbles in several parts to the inevitable point where the conceit contradicts the set-up.

The story is moving; the drama is engaging; the action is snappy; the moral strikes a chord; Montalban is a BAMF, all that stuff. But to appreciate any of that, you pretty much have to turn your brain off the second Chekov flips the belt buckle and realizes he's a double dumbass who's forgetful and can't count to six.
Yeah but most of ST relies on contrivance. Step on a butterfly in 2200 and the Alpha Quadrant gets destroyed in half a dozen ways.

I don't care that Chekov wasn't in season one, or that no one did actually bother to check up on Khan, or that Chekov (as you rightly point out) can't count to six or that Kirk possibly didn't even record the whole damn thing.

I care that Kirk never learned to lose and that Spocks death hurts that much more for it. I care that Meyer ingeniously has a clock-ticking sound going in the 'condo scene'. And that he got out of Shatner a level of acting we hadn't seen in 15 years.

But I respect your opinion.
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Old January 14 2013, 12:07 PM   #749
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

T'Cal wrote: View Post
Before the 2009 film's success, my desire was to have Trek return to syndicated TV more as a 24th century show than strictly a TNG show. I have to admit that the reboot breathed new life into the franchise. I just hope that the Next Gen era is not done and that it returns in some form.
Read the novels! 24th century Trek never went away, and the current stories have a better hit/miss ratio than the TV shows did.
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Old January 14 2013, 03:51 PM   #750
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
This thread is so full of fail...(edited for brevity)
TL;DR
I did. I love a good well-written rant
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