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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 13 2013, 04:00 PM   #16
BillJ
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

The attitudes we saw towards Spock always gave me the impression that the Federation was much newer than depicted in the later series and maybe the Vulcans weren't highly regarded for whatever reason. The lack of emotion likely made the integration of the different races difficult.

And yes, on several occasions McCoy was way out of line regarding Spock.
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Old January 13 2013, 04:54 PM   #17
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

R. Star wrote: View Post
I'd like to think by the 23rd century, assuming humanity is even a going concern, we don't look into every little thing looking for something to get our feelings hurt and cry foul over.

I would like to agree, but the way things are, the trend seems to be going the opposite way. If anything, the cry of "I'm offended!!!" will likely be used more often.

As for the OP, I gather that it was philosophical/cultural and not racial, at least with McCoy. He seemed to think that the Vulcan philosophy of emotional suppression was unhealthy or unnatural. At any rate, they were more like the arguing friends we've all known-they argue all the time but there's a deep level of respect underneath.
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Old January 13 2013, 05:34 PM   #18
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

It's also important to notice that it wasn't one-sided. Spock gave as good as he got, with his dry asides about silly, irrational humans and McCoy's hopeless emotionality in particular. One never got the sense that Spock was being picked on for being a Vulcan; he seemed to enjoy the banter as much as McCoy (in his own reserved Vulcan way, of course).

Which is where they got it wrong with Pulaski/Data on TNG, btw. They tried to recreate the Spock/McCoy dynamic with Pulaski and Data, but missed the fact that Data comes as as much more of an innocent than Spock ever did. Data would never think of retaliating in kind, so Pulaski always seemed like she was picking on a defenseless target.
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Old January 13 2013, 05:37 PM   #19
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It's also important to notice that it wasn't one-sided. Spock gave as good as he got, with his dry asides about silly, irrational humans and McCoy's hopeless emotionality in particular. One never got the sense that Spock was being picked on for being a Vulcan; he seemed to enjoy the banter as much as McCoy (in his own reserved Vulcan way, of course).

Which is where they got it wrong with the Pulaski/Data on TNG, btw. They tried to recreate the Spock/McCoy dynamic with Pulasi and Data, but missed the fact that Data comes as as much more of an innocent than Spock ever did. Data would never think of retaliating in kind, so Pulaski always seemed like she was picking on a defenseless target . . . .
Agreed, on both counts.

Pulaski just came across as mean.
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Old January 13 2013, 07:10 PM   #20
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It's also important to notice that it wasn't one-sided. Spock gave as good as he got, with his dry asides about silly, irrational humans and McCoy's hopeless emotionality in particular.
But that just makes Spock as much of a racist in return. And on top of it, he's a hypocrite as well because the Vulcans used to be far worse than Humanity ever was.
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Old January 13 2013, 07:29 PM   #21
Nerys Myk
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Anwar wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It's also important to notice that it wasn't one-sided. Spock gave as good as he got, with his dry asides about silly, irrational humans and McCoy's hopeless emotionality in particular.
But that just makes Spock as much of a racist in return. And on top of it, he's a hypocrite as well because the Vulcans used to be far worse than Humanity ever was.
But Spock didn't know that at the time.
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Old January 13 2013, 07:36 PM   #22
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

This is another one of those "dated" qualities about the show. You can't avoid it, because it was produced in the 1960's.
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Old January 13 2013, 07:49 PM   #23
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Gary7 wrote: View Post
This is another one of those "dated" qualities about the show. You can't avoid it, because it was produced in the 1960's.
I'm more annoyed with the occasional disregard of rank...then I am with subsurface racism. They are after all...'human'.
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Old January 13 2013, 08:01 PM   #24
Nerys Myk
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Gary7 wrote: View Post
This is another one of those "dated" qualities about the show. You can't avoid it, because it was produced in the 1960's.
I'm more annoyed with the occasional disregard of rank...then I am with subsurface racism. They are after all...'human'.
Most fictional militaries do the same. Especially comedies. The higher the rank the higher the ridicule.
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Old January 13 2013, 09:56 PM   #25
Greg Cox
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Gary7 wrote: View Post
This is another one of those "dated" qualities about the show. You can't avoid it, because it was produced in the 1960's.
I'm more annoyed with the occasional disregard of rank...then I am with subsurface racism. They are after all...'human'.
Most fictional militaries do the same. Especially comedies. The higher the rank the higher the ridicule.
Remember this was the era of McHale's Navy and Gomer Pyle and F Troop and all sorts of service comedies. Like Nerys said, it was a TV show, not a documentary on military protocol . . . .

Heck, even today, detectives on cops shows routinely go behind their commander's backs. "Damnit, Beckett, you're off the case!" Etc.

Is it realistic? Who knows? But it makes good TV.
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Old January 13 2013, 10:36 PM   #26
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Gary7 wrote: View Post
This is another one of those "dated" qualities about the show. You can't avoid it, because it was produced in the 1960's.
Correct, and an accurate reflect of the social and political climate underneath the philosophical ideal the show creator tried to promote.

However, if done TODAY as a TV show, there would more than likely be black captain in command, a female of ambiguous sexual orientation as his 2nd, our former 'enemies' would now be our 'friends', and the ship would contain only 17% White Anglo-types in either positions of limited respect and responsibility, or serve primarily as the series Villains,.... oh wait,. they already made that show too. LOL!!!!
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Old January 13 2013, 10:37 PM   #27
sonak
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

also, let's not forget that Trek has NEVER been reaistic on the military aspects. Officers doing enlisted men work, "flagships" without flag officers, officers who stay as captain or XO of a ship for a decade or more.

Trek's military is nothing like a modern military.
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Old January 14 2013, 12:31 AM   #28
Anwar
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It's also important to notice that it wasn't one-sided. Spock gave as good as he got, with his dry asides about silly, irrational humans and McCoy's hopeless emotionality in particular.
But that just makes Spock as much of a racist in return. And on top of it, he's a hypocrite as well because the Vulcans used to be far worse than Humanity ever was.
But Spock didn't know that at the time.
Actually, he did. Which makes him an utter hypocrite because he knew full well how savage the Vulcans used to be.
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Old January 14 2013, 12:42 AM   #29
Nerys Myk
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Anwar wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post

But that just makes Spock as much of a racist in return. And on top of it, he's a hypocrite as well because the Vulcans used to be far worse than Humanity ever was.
But Spock didn't know that at the time.
Actually, he did. Which makes him an utter hypocrite because he knew full well how savage the Vulcans used to be.
Why?
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Old January 14 2013, 12:51 AM   #30
Bad Atom
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Re: Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

A lot of people forget that "Gene's vision of a perfect humanity where everyone gets along" is a legend that started after the show went off the air. The characters in the original series were not like that, so their behavior can seem shocking. They were good people, but flawed, arrogant, and yes, even a bit racist. But that's what makes them so interesting, even today.
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