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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 12 2013, 10:17 PM   #46
R. Star
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

I'd start a temporal cold war too if random jerks just started screwing with the whole timeline every time they got a bloody nose.
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Old January 13 2013, 12:20 AM   #47
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Nero and his crew are more ready now and aren't stopped by the younger Kirk and Spock, and Vulcan is joined by the 130 other Federation planets.
That's the only good reason I have heard from the opposition so far (i.e., 130 to 1).

1. Spock is from the future too. There are no secrets that a mining ship from his time would make it undefeatable.

2. He has time to plan and can appear at the time of his choosing.

3. There is the mere possibility of 130 vs. the certainty of the loss of Vulcan.

4. Does Nero state in the film that he will destroy ALL UFP planets?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
And no, I'm afraid viable methods of time travel ARE as disposable as warp speed time/distance ratios in Trek's world. Just look at things like weapons - why weren't Genesis missiles shot at invading Borg ships in Next Generation, making cute little cuboid planets? Why didn't the Enterprise-E use the godmode armour and weapons Voyager brought home in "Endgame" to pulp the Scimitar in ten seconds? What ever happened to the Kelvan's warp drive upgrades given the Enterprise in "By Any Other Name"? Or the Enterprise-D's 300% shield upgrade in "The Nth Degree"? Or the ability for Klingon ships that could fire while cloaked? Or the wide beam settings on phasers, which could have ended "The Seige of AR-558" in two minutes?

Why didn't Spock use the Guardian of Forever (potential Harlan Ellison lawsuits aside)? Why didn't he go at warp 10 away from the supernova danger zone and slingshot back in time a single day and try again in 2387? Why didn't the TOS crew use their time travel abilities to undo the massive destruction wrought by the doomsday machine, Nomad, the the parasites on Deneva, the planet-eating cloud in the animated series? Etc.

Wow I just realized I know far too much about Trek.
So what? Inconsistencies in one story do not cover inconsistencies in another.

The fact issling-shot time-travel is canonical Trek, where warp speeds vary.

We have positive instances of this method.

It is a major plot device (i.e., the story is predicated on sling-shot time travel working).

There are no in-universe defeaters of sling-shot time-travel (we never hear a Trek character in DS9 announce that slingshot time travel does not work anymore).
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Old January 13 2013, 12:23 AM   #48
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

But we have no instance of them wiping out 25 years of new "history" with the slingshot manuever. So we don't even know if its possible.
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Old January 13 2013, 12:48 AM   #49
YARN
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

BillJ wrote: View Post
But we have no instance of them wiping out 25 years of new "history" with the slingshot manuever. So we don't even know if its possible.
What? The Enterprise traveled all the way back to the 1960s just to observe stuff. In Star Trek IV they came back to the 1980s to get whales. Both missions had causal effects on the timeline. In the latter case, for example, they brought back a 20th century woman, left behind the formula for transparent aluminum, harassed whalers, and stole uranium from an air craft carrier. We know that it is possible.

Also, why are you assuming that Spock has to change 25 years of history. He only needs to prevent the destruction of Vulcan.
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Old January 13 2013, 01:23 AM   #50
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

How about because, for once, the dramatic impact of an event is not undermined by the oh so tiresome "reset button" that gets used all too often in sci-fi in general (and Trek in particular)? Good enough for me (and I suspect for a lot of people).

This is exactly why, as I noted somewhere earlier, I don't bother contemplating the implications of time travel stories anymore and simply judge them on how entertaining I find them. Of course, others are free to view things differently, but they cannot expect to be satisfied as to their personal views on things like time travel stories (or by entertainment in general).
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Old January 13 2013, 01:27 AM   #51
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

Jackson_Roykirk wrote: View Post
YARN wrote: View Post
This nuTrek timeline has shown that people who are meant to be born are not only born, but have the job assignments they should have!
Meh.

I just need to look to Mirror Mirror or Yesterday's Enterprise to see the crew all (or at least mostly) coming together in a totally different timeline/alternate reality.

The logical side of me asks:
"How could this be? How did all of these Mirror Universe people all come together to be on the Enterprise -- AND Mirror Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, and Uhura just so happen to be beaming up from the Halken's planet AT THE EXACT MOMENT our heroes were?"
It's even more daft 80 years later in DS9. Despite everything that's occured in that time - the fall of the Terran empire, everyone has still been born - except Jake Sisko, and Mirror Jadzia even dies at the same time as the normal one.

Gojira wrote: View Post
Marten wrote: View Post
The temporal prime directive would seem to oblige Spock to restore the timeline, which in effect is to stop the Narada from doing anything. I never liked that it never was brought up in the 09 film.
The intent of the movie was to reboot the franchise so that just was not going to happen.
Perhaps when Pine and co hand over to the next team they could end their last movie going back to save Kirk's father and everyone else. Leave the universe how they found it.

I just find it odd Spock sounds so different, and Sulu so much older as result of the messed up timeline.
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Old January 13 2013, 01:39 AM   #52
Nerys Myk
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

Rarewolf wrote: View Post
Jackson_Roykirk wrote: View Post
YARN wrote: View Post
This nuTrek timeline has shown that people who are meant to be born are not only born, but have the job assignments they should have!
Meh.

I just need to look to Mirror Mirror or Yesterday's Enterprise to see the crew all (or at least mostly) coming together in a totally different timeline/alternate reality.

The logical side of me asks:
"How could this be? How did all of these Mirror Universe people all come together to be on the Enterprise -- AND Mirror Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, and Uhura just so happen to be beaming up from the Halken's planet AT THE EXACT MOMENT our heroes were?"
It's even more daft 80 years later in DS9. Despite everything that's occured in that time - the fall of the Terran empire, everyone has still been born - except Jake Sisko, and Mirror Jadzia even dies at the same time as the normal one.

Gojira wrote: View Post
Marten wrote: View Post
The temporal prime directive would seem to oblige Spock to restore the timeline, which in effect is to stop the Narada from doing anything. I never liked that it never was brought up in the 09 film.
The intent of the movie was to reboot the franchise so that just was not going to happen.
Perhaps when Pine and co hand over to the next team they could end their last movie going back to save Kirk's father and everyone else. Leave the universe how they found it.

I just find it odd Spock sounds so different, and Sulu so much older as result of the messed up timeline.
What age is Sulu supposed to be? (Not John Cho, Sulu)
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Old January 13 2013, 03:01 AM   #53
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?


Why doesn't Spock just go back more than 25 years, and then go back to the future, since Nero wouldn't have arrived at that point, and then just prevent the supernova/convince the Romulans to evacuate/pick up Nero's wife in the Jellyfish so Nero doesn't go all crazy?
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Old January 13 2013, 03:18 AM   #54
Nerys Myk
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

Because that's not the story being told.
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Old January 13 2013, 03:21 AM   #55
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

What kind of mind finds such questions interesting?
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Old January 13 2013, 03:24 AM   #56
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Because that's not the story being told.
This is really what it comes down to.

We can ask this question every single time something bad happens. Doomsday Machine? Why not use the slingshot to save the Constellation crew? Space Amoeba? Why not use the slingshot to save the Intrepid crew. V'ger? Why not use the slingshot to save Epsilon IX? And on and on and on and on and on...
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Old January 13 2013, 03:24 AM   #57
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
What kind of mind finds such questions interesting?
The kinds of minds that come to certain web fora dedicated to something that was old years ago.
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Old January 13 2013, 03:35 AM   #58
YARN
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
What kind of mind finds such questions interesting?
The kinds of minds that come to certain web fora dedicated to something that was old years ago.
Our responses are now down to

"It's just a movie!" (genre pleading)

"The same question applies to other Trek stories!" (Tu Quoque)

"Only weirdos who like old Trek would care" (Ad Hominem).

Strange that one is shamed for getting one's geek on at a geek board.
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Old January 13 2013, 03:36 AM   #59
Nerys Myk
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
What kind of mind finds such questions interesting?
The kinds of minds that come to certain web fora dedicated to something that was old years ago.
Huh?
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Old January 13 2013, 03:43 AM   #60
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Re: So why doesn't Spock save Vulcan?

YARN wrote: View Post
"The same question applies to other Trek stories!" (Tu Quoque)
I just think its hypocritical to apply a standard to one Trek story that you're not willing to apply to all Trek stories.
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