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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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Old January 10 2013, 10:16 PM   #16
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
There are only two requirements for Federation membership: One world government, and no caste-based discrimination. A world that is ruled by a monarchy would qualify, as long as it satisfied those two things.
I agree with that, though I would assume that horrible sentient rights abuses would also disqualify them.
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Old January 10 2013, 10:42 PM   #17
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

RPJOB wrote: View Post
Ardana in The Cloud Minders defiantly had a caste based system and it was very discriminatory yet the planet was a Federation member.
Did anyone even know about the situation with the Troglytes until Kirk and crew showed up there?
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Old January 10 2013, 10:49 PM   #18
tighr
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

Timo wrote: View Post
What we know about opposition to caste systems is this specific phrase by Sisko:

"You realize that caste-based discrimination goes against the Federation Charter. If Bajor returns to the D'jarra system, I have no doubt that its petition to join the Federation will be rejected."
Sure, Bajor's system or the discrimination practiced within it might be of a particularly damning type. But Sisko makes it appear more generic than that, that is, all discrimination that is based on caste is frowned upon in the UFP. Caste systems that don't discriminate may be fine, though.
I think in this context, the difference between a caste system and a class system is that Bajor's D'jarra system was based solely on what your family name was. Family name is Kira? Congratulations, you're an artisan. Can't sculpt worth shit? Not my problem.

A Class system would imply that you are capable of moving up and down between the classes based on your level education or earned wealth, and that movement between classes is not restricted. Can't sculpt worth shit? Better find something else to do, because you're not making it in this society as an artist.
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Old January 10 2013, 11:23 PM   #19
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

Timo wrote: View Post
Our evidence for a (British? Australian? Dutch? Indian? Malesian? South Italian? Texan?) Royal Navy.
The South shall rise again.

And of course, I mean the Italian South.

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Old January 11 2013, 12:30 AM   #20
T'Girl
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Did anyone even know about the situation with the Troglytes until Kirk and crew showed up there?
Spock knew of their existence. The situation with the group called "The Disruptors" seemed to be a surprise

tighr wrote: View Post
A Class system would imply that you are capable of moving up and down between the classes ...
It also implies that you can move sideways within your own class, something as I understand it you can't do with a caste system.

Droxine said that the Troglytes did the mining, but also they tilled the soil. So they're not all miners, some are farmers. If a young person has the option of farming, mining or some other occupation, then there is no caste system. At least not for them. And while a member of the aristocracy might have invented the anti-gravity devise that holds Stratos in the sky, I doubt the aristocracy actually built the city. The Troglytes, or different "middle class" professional class?
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Old January 11 2013, 02:29 AM   #21
The Overlord
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
There are only two requirements for Federation membership: One world government, and no caste-based discrimination. A world that is ruled by a monarchy would qualify, as long as it satisfied those two things.
Pretty sure there are more requirements then that. A Stalinist dictatorship would not have a caste system, but I do think a poor civil rights record in general would be frowned upon by the Federation.

I doubt the Cardassian Union would be allowed into the Federation, when it was still a military dictatorship. As seen with "The Drumhead" the Federation has some Bill or Charter of Rights and I think a government that hasn't willing to adopt those rights wouldn't be allowed in.
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Old January 11 2013, 02:49 AM   #22
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

The Federation's rules and morals are whatever they say in that moment to make themselves look good politically and get what they want. It's that simple. The disparity in treatment between Bajor and Ardana is an excellent example of that.
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Old January 11 2013, 05:02 AM   #23
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

There does seem to be a pretty thin line between 'Respecting the traditions of another culture' and tolerating atrocities. The Federation didn't intervene on Bajor but they sure showed up and offered their support once the Bajorans had already won.

But I wouldn't be as cynical about this as you, Ghemor. The Federation would not openly tolerate slavery or systems where people are treated as unequal totally based on where they were born. There are several cases where they ignore their political best interest based on values.
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Old January 11 2013, 08:14 AM   #24
RPJOB
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
"You realize that caste-based discrimination goes against the Federation Charter."
Sisko doesn't say that the Federation Charter prohibits caste-based systems, but specifically caste-based discrimination.

So, if the Federation doesn't consider your particular castes to be discriminatory (because they need your zenite), then you can have castes in your society all you want.
An excellent point. How would the Federation handle a cast based system based on biological differences such as the Tholians? What about a psionic hive mind where the strongest psi gets you a stronger vote within the group mind? We know the Federation has been referred to as a democracy but we don't know enough about it's structure to determine if it's just the council or if there's a larger body like the General Assembly of the UN. What we saw in TVH may be the equivalent of the UN Security Council. We did see representatives of the founding races but not a lot of others. It could be that The founders have a veto and essentially run things with other planets having a voice and a vote but no veto power. We don't even know how the representatives are chosen. T'Pau was said to have turned down a seat. It sounds like she was essentially appointed, not elected unless Vulcan has write in candidates. It would be illogical to select someone without knowing if they would accept.
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Old January 11 2013, 08:26 AM   #25
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

There are several cases where they ignore their political best interest based on values.
I'd rather think the key difference here would be found in a basic element of representative democracy: you can only have an influence during elections, not between them. Ardana was already a member; Bajor was undergoing a selection process. Only the latter situation would allow for the sort of blackmail that makes democracy work.

Spock knew of their existence. The situation with the group called "The Disruptors" seemed to be a surprise
Spock apparently thought of that situation as a recent development once informed of it, and nothing in the episode indicated otherwise, either.

So perhaps the other situation, the general dissatisfaction of the Troglytes in their lot, is also a recent development? And by extension, perhaps the zenite gas exposure and its related woes are new things, too. Possibly there was less mining previously; possibly the demand for zenite specifically only emerged recently, and old mining procedures that used to be perfectly safe for the Troglytes did not work on the new material at all.

Note that zenite is only found on Ardana and nowhere else - yet the Stratosians keep none of the stuff in stock! It is only mined as a direct response to the crisis on Merak II, apparently. Possibly this is the very first time it has been mined at all (or, to acknowledge the Federation knowledge about the potency of zenite, the second or third time, but the previous times were long, long ago), and the Merak crisis is the root cause of the sudden suffering of the Troglytes.

How sudden, we don't know. The Merak crisis need not have cropped up overnight, and the fight against the plague may have lasted for years already, the zenite mining having been going on for months, and Kirk's courier mission is a carefully scheduled rather than unanticipated one (which is why even the Troglytes are so well informed about it).

Sure, Plasus speaks of "centuries of evolution" having proven that the Trogytes have no potential and deserve no better. But Plasus might be speaking the objective truth there, the Troglytes indeed being a "lower life form" - yet their suffering might still be a very recent thing, a development Plasus' regime is taking joyful advantage of. The preceding High Advisor, a few years back, might not have enjoyed the circumstances yet.

Troglyte life may have been quite idyllic back when Kirk and Spock previously visited this planet... And since the teaser indicates that high warp is called for to reach Ardana, and since Spock has been unable to revisit despite his desire to do so, we could assume outsiders from the Federation heartlands seldom visit Ardana. Hell, outsiders seldom visited Deneva, either - an entire year of complete silence was not considered worth checking up on! Quite possibly, we are only seeing a particularly repulsive Stratosian at the office of High Advisor at a particularly dire moment in Ardanan history, and the two-layer societal structure is otherwise a palatable one by general UFP standards.

How would the Federation handle a cast based system based on biological differences such as the Tholians?
For all we know, Ardana is one. Zenite might simply exaggerate an already existing difference between the two population groups, and this "natural" difference (without zenite influence) might also be but the result of different living conditions, nutrition etc., but that doesn't mean that the biological differences would be any less real - or that the UFP would be obligated to eliminate them by artificial means, such as by forcing every Ardanan on an identical diet.

Just as an aside, the one-city nature of the planet sort of suggests that this is actually a colony (possibly a human one from Earth) that simply has a few centuries of history of isolation behind it, rather than an indigenous society on a planet possessing a full, natural ecosystem. Plasus quoting "centuries of evolution" as opposed to "millions of years" is suggestive as well... But this doesn't mean that every colonist would be obligated to an identical lifestyle or biology.

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Old January 11 2013, 08:28 AM   #26
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
But I wouldn't be as cynical about this as you, Ghemor. The Federation would not openly tolerate slavery or systems where people are treated as unequal totally based on where they were born. There are several cases where they ignore their political best interest based on values.
Oh, really? They tolerate it every day they call the Klingons their most valued allies yet fail completely to call the Klingons out on the conquests and enslavements that they carry out.
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Old January 11 2013, 08:37 AM   #27
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

To be fair, we never really hear of Klingon conquests or enslavements. Either our heroes thwart such Klingon plans, or the Klingons oppress peoples the UFP wants oppressed as well, such as the Dominion or the Cardassians.

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Old January 11 2013, 09:12 AM   #28
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

kuvesa tokhesa - "I serve willingly." A willing servitor. The Federation may translate Kuve as slave but the Klingons seem to have a more nuanced version. The conquered planets serve the Empire. If they rebell then action would be taken against them. Kor seemed willing to let the Organians continue to live much as they had as long as they behaved themselves. He on;y ordered the group of hostages killed after Kirk & Spock decided that the Organians shouldn't be able to decide for themselves how to deal with the Klingon occupation. It's not like Kor beamed down and started slaughtering people just to make a point.

KOR: Good honest hatred. Very refreshing. However, it makes no difference whether you welcome me or not. I am here and will stay. You are now subjects of the Klingon Empire. You'll find there are many rules and regulations. They will be posted. Violation of the smallest of them will be punished by death.
AYELBORNE: We shall obey your regulations, Commander.
And

KOR: From this day on, no public assemblages of more than three people. All publications to be cleared through this office. Neighbourhood controls will be established, hostages selected. A somewhat lengthy list of crimes against the state.
Basically, don't make waves. Harsh by human standards but nor mad dog crazy either. How do you think the Afghans and Iraqis were treated just after the war started? I'm sure there were various regulations put in place as well.
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Old January 11 2013, 10:02 AM   #29
Timo
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

The conquered planets serve the Empire. If they rebell then action would be taken against them.
Yet the thing is, there are no examples of this really happening. Klingon designs on Organia were thwarted. Krios was never indicated to be anything but a Klingon colony. No members of species other than the "one and only" Klingons ever served aboard Klingon ships or installations (evident now that the forehead thing was finally sorted out). Etc.

The Son'a had subjugated races in their servitude. The Grand Nagus had alien servants. Kirk had an alien lackey, Picard had dozens at least. The Klingons? They only ever served each other! And aliens within the Empire only served prison sentences...

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Old January 11 2013, 04:59 PM   #30
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Re: Monarchy within the Federation.

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
They tolerate it every day they call the Klingons their most valued allies yet fail completely to call the Klingons out on the conquests and enslavements that they carry out.
Who says they fail to call them out? They pretty clearly condemned the Klingon invasion of Cardassia. For all we know, the Federation is working very hard to change the Klingons' ways through diplomacy, cultural influence and "soft power". (Besides, the original point was that they wouldn't tolerate it within the Federation.)
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