Was Chakotay a stereotype? - Page 5

teya · January 10 2013, 06:35 PM

^ They could have done something with his heritage if they'd bothered to think & get creative. Maybe actually talk to some Indians...

For example, run with the Maya. Make Chak's ancestors who left earth some 22nd century well-educated professionals who simply want a life with less tech than they're getting on earth. Rural communities worldwide are adopting tech to reach out, but still retaining traditional ways of doing things. I mean, hell, you can watch live feeds from sugar shacks.

There's a difference between choosing to do some things by hand, and being a complete Luddite. It's hard to understand how a group of people who shunned technology would get on a starship & hurtle themselves to the far reaches of the quadrant.

Draculasaurus · January 10 2013, 10:37 PM

Don't forget Chakotay's psychedelic gameboy thing.
I thought that was a pretty creative original sci-fi idea.
In that aspect at least, his spirituality wasn't stereotypically generic.

Guy Gardener · January 10 2013, 10:50 PM

His LSD machine that created minicollectives?

Like he can use that any more with an exborg wife.

It's like marrying an alchoholic. You're an asshole if you continue to drink without her.

teya · January 11 2013, 02:28 AM

Draculasaurus wrote:

Don't forget Chakotay's psychedelic gameboy thing.
I thought that was a pretty creative original sci-fi idea.
In that aspect at least, his spirituality wasn't stereotypically generic.

24th century technology that replaced hallucinogenic herbs. He said it himself.

Nothing new there. The entire point of hallucinogens is to get in a trance state. Because that's where spiritual work is done.

And a trance can be achieved by drumming or chanting or saying the Rosary, among other things.

teya · January 11 2013, 02:29 AM

Guy Gardener wrote:

His LSD machine that created minicollectives?

Like he can use that any more with an exborg wife.

It's like marrying an alchoholic. You're an asshole if you continue to drink without her.

Heh! He can link minds with her. That's got all sorts of potential.

Guy Gardener · January 11 2013, 02:35 AM

B'Elanna used it kill small fury animals.

jpch · January 11 2013, 01:11 PM

Guy Gardener wrote:

B'Elanna used it kill small fury animals.

hahahahha!!!

B'Elanna : ''I hope you have better luck with yours then i did with mine''

Chakotay :'' B'Elanna is the only person i know who tried to kill her animal guide!!''

Janeway :

!!!

Deckerd · January 11 2013, 01:23 PM

teya wrote:

No, I mean the folks from Europe who explain what a "Red Indian" is, what we look like (I never fit the stereotype, nor do most from my nation), how we're the most ecological & spiritual on the planet (cue New Age soundtrack), how the lack of a tribe isn't a problem for them because they're enlightened (unlike Indians who view their tribal identity as part of their individual identity).

Chakotay could have been an inspiration in much the way Uhura was in the 60s. But TPTB chose to make him an Indian recognizeable to white folks, but didn't really care if he was recognizeable as an Indian to Indians.

Well that's me told. I'm not sure what prompted that but we 'folks from Europe' sure thank you for your sweeping generalisations and severe lecture on how to respect other folks. Because, y'know, we're so ignorant and intolerant.

Guy Gardener · January 11 2013, 01:50 PM

Continental drift says that you are trying to escape from Europe, and current political leanings may agree with that odd quirk, so in a month or few you won't be European.

The Greater German Empire after the certain Nazi victory was intended to be called "Neuropa" as in New Europe, and I doubt that they would have left Great Britain consolidated, that Ireland and Scotland would have been freed of English Occupation even if all the menacing Tommys were replaced by holidaying Stormtroopers.

I doubt that they would have let your lot join Neuropa until England officially adopted Deutch as their National language, even though they'd certainly tax the shit out of you as a protectorate and force reparations for losing the war out of you for the next thousand years.

And really, is it just me, or for the year 2000 celebrations, wouldn't the Nazi's have renamed Earth "Germany" just to forgo any doubt about their short term goals?

Or would there even be a year 2000 when we had our year 2000 if, all things considered, that they started the clock again from Victory Europe Day, or Victory America Day, perhaps the Party getting into power in 1933 or even Hitler's birthday in 1889?

Did Hitler have plans for the "Red Indians" like so many other singled out ethnicities?

Get this, he gave the Mormons a pass because he couldn't take them seriously.

teya · January 11 2013, 02:18 PM

Deckerd wrote:

teya wrote:

No, I mean the folks from Europe who explain what a "Red Indian" is, what we look like (I never fit the stereotype, nor do most from my nation), how we're the most ecological & spiritual on the planet (cue New Age soundtrack), how the lack of a tribe isn't a problem for them because they're enlightened (unlike Indians who view their tribal identity as part of their individual identity).

Chakotay could have been an inspiration in much the way Uhura was in the 60s. But TPTB chose to make him an Indian recognizeable to white folks, but didn't really care if he was recognizeable as an Indian to Indians.

Well that's me told. I'm not sure what prompted that but we 'folks from Europe' sure thank you for your sweeping generalisations and severe lecture on how to respect other folks. Because, y'know, we're so ignorant and intolerant.

Have you lectured anyone on what a "Red Indian" is? Have you even used the terminology?

If not, why would you place yourself in that group?

Deckerd · January 11 2013, 02:21 PM

I'm just baffled how Europeans suddenly got the blame for bad scriptwriting in an American TV show.

January 10 2013, 06:35 PM	#61
teya Vice Admiral Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart	Re: Was Chakotay a stereotype? ^ They could have done something with his heritage if they'd bothered to think & get creative. Maybe actually talk to some Indians... For example, run with the Maya. Make Chak's ancestors who left earth some 22nd century well-educated professionals who simply want a life with less tech than they're getting on earth. Rural communities worldwide are adopting tech to reach out, but still retaining traditional ways of doing things. I mean, hell, you can watch live feeds from sugar shacks. There's a difference between choosing to do some things by hand, and being a complete Luddite. It's hard to understand how a group of people who shunned technology would get on a starship & hurtle themselves to the far reaches of the quadrant. __________________ Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.

January 10 2013, 10:37 PM	#62
Draculasaurus Lieutenant Commander	Re: Was Chakotay a stereotype? Don't forget Chakotay's psychedelic gameboy thing. I thought that was a pretty creative original sci-fi idea. In that aspect at least, his spirituality wasn't stereotypically generic.

January 10 2013, 10:50 PM	#63
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Chakotay a stereotype? His LSD machine that created minicollectives? Like he can use that any more with an exborg wife. It's like marrying an alchoholic. You're an asshole if you continue to drink without her. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

January 11 2013, 02:35 AM	#66
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Chakotay a stereotype? B'Elanna used it kill small fury animals. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

January 11 2013, 01:50 PM	#69
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Chakotay a stereotype? Continental drift says that you are trying to escape from Europe, and current political leanings may agree with that odd quirk, so in a month or few you won't be European. The Greater German Empire after the certain Nazi victory was intended to be called "Neuropa" as in New Europe, and I doubt that they would have left Great Britain consolidated, that Ireland and Scotland would have been freed of English Occupation even if all the menacing Tommys were replaced by holidaying Stormtroopers. I doubt that they would have let your lot join Neuropa until England officially adopted Deutch as their National language, even though they'd certainly tax the shit out of you as a protectorate and force reparations for losing the war out of you for the next thousand years. And really, is it just me, or for the year 2000 celebrations, wouldn't the Nazi's have renamed Earth "Germany" just to forgo any doubt about their short term goals? Or would there even be a year 2000 when we had our year 2000 if, all things considered, that they started the clock again from Victory Europe Day, or Victory America Day, perhaps the Party getting into power in 1933 or even Hitler's birthday in 1889? Did Hitler have plans for the "Red Indians" like so many other singled out ethnicities? Get this, he gave the Mormons a pass because he couldn't take them seriously. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz Last edited by Guy Gardener; January 11 2013 at 02:01 PM.

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January 11 2013, 02:21 PM	#71
Deckerd Fleet Arse Location: in the Frozen Wastes	Re: Was Chakotay a stereotype? I'm just baffled how Europeans suddenly got the blame for bad scriptwriting in an American TV show. __________________ They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.