Ashes of Eden before Return? - Page 2

TJ Sinclair · January 8 2013, 12:30 AM

tomswift2002 wrote:

Well you should pick up Collision Course. TOS-only books are not usually at the top of my favorites list (since most of the ones from the 70's to the 90's felt like Westerns, and I'm not exactly into Westerns), but Collision was nothing like the TOS books before it. And it really made the Shatner books rebound after the Totality trilogy. It's too bad that Shatner hasn't written its sequel yet.

Someone gave me a copy of Collision Course as a birthday gift when it came out. It's been sitting unread on my shelf ever since. I had to resist the temptation to tell that person to return it and never speak to me again.

Therin of Andor · January 8 2013, 02:03 AM

tomswift2002 wrote:

I don't think you really need to read Ashes before Return, since I've tried reading "Ashes" and I could never get through it

"Ashes of Eden" is also adapted as a graphic novel.

Markonian · January 9 2013, 07:46 PM

TJ Sinclair wrote:

Someone gave me a copy of Collision Course as a birthday gift when it came out. It's been sitting unread on my shelf ever since. I had to resist the temptation to tell that person to return it and never speak to me again.

Do you think it's so bad? Give it a try. After all, you can still stop or resell it.

tomswift2002 · January 9 2013, 09:49 PM

TJ Sinclair wrote:

tomswift2002 wrote:

Well you should pick up Collision Course. TOS-only books are not usually at the top of my favorites list (since most of the ones from the 70's to the 90's felt like Westerns, and I'm not exactly into Westerns), but Collision was nothing like the TOS books before it. And it really made the Shatner books rebound after the Totality trilogy. It's too bad that Shatner hasn't written its sequel yet.

Someone gave me a copy of Collision Course as a birthday gift when it came out. It's been sitting unread on my shelf ever since. I had to resist the temptation to tell that person to return it and never speak to me again.

The only bad part about it is that its a Part 1 to a multi-part story that never got finished.

King Daniel Into Darkness · January 9 2013, 10:04 PM

All I really remember from CC is that it felt like a nuTrek novel and the Back to the Future-style flying cars (I remember being quite critical of the idea of flying cars in Trek-land. And now they're in Into Darkness!

)

Oh, and that it was enjoyable. And that it's kind of a reboot itself, being based on Shatner's 2000-and-something pitch for an academy-based TV series. It's not in continuity with the rest of the Shatnerverse.

tomswift2002 · January 9 2013, 10:18 PM

I thought that it was in continuity with the rest of William Shatner's books, since even though Kirk and Spock are in it and are working on the same thing, I don't remember them actually meeting, or if they did it was very informal and was brushed off as something that didn't matter, leaving open the first meeting as Shatner described in the first Totality book.

King Daniel Into Darkness · January 9 2013, 10:58 PM

IIRC, the Tarsus IV flashbacks were incompatible with the ones in Avenger - one version has Kirk protecting young Kevin Riley during the massacre, in the other he's alone. I think Kirk's a few years older in CC's version too.

Christopher · January 9 2013, 11:00 PM

King Daniel wrote:

All I really remember from CC is that it felt like a nuTrek novel and the Back to the Future-style flying cars (I remember being quite critical of the idea of flying cars in Trek-land. And now they're in Into Darkness!

)

Hovercars have been an established part of the Trek universe since they were seen on Vulcan in "Yesteryear." VGR: "The 37s" established that they were in use on Earth since the 2030s. Hovercars were seen outside Archer's apartment window in "Shockwave." Ben Sisko's biological mother died in a hovercraft accident.

TJ Sinclair · January 9 2013, 11:45 PM

King Daniel wrote:

IIRC, the Tarsus IV flashbacks were incompatible with the ones in Avenger - one version has Kirk protecting young Kevin Riley during the massacre, in the other he's alone. I think Kirk's a few years older in CC's version too.

Given that in Avenger, all we really see is Kirk running through the woods after the massacre, and that his memories were "fudged" by a mindmeld, I never had any trouble reconciling Avenger with the flashbacks in The Lost Years. Is Collision Course that different?

tomswift2002 · January 10 2013, 12:28 AM

TJ Sinclair wrote:

Given that in Avenger, all we really see is Kirk running through the woods after the massacre, and that his memories were "fudged" by a mindmeld, I never had any trouble reconciling Avenger with the flashbacks in The Lost Years. Is Collision Course that different?

I don't think they are.

TJ Sinclair · January 10 2013, 01:21 AM

As for depictions of the first meeting between Kirk and Spock not jiving up, I'm still a fan of the TOS Starfleet Academy young adult trilogy.

Therin of Andor · January 10 2013, 02:59 PM

tomswift2002 wrote:

The only bad part about it is that its a Part 1 to a multi-part story that never got finished.

It's deliberately quite self-contained. The hook at the end leads into the friendship we know today. We know that Kirk and Spock had many adventures together.

tomswift2002 wrote:

I thought that it was in continuity with the rest of William Shatner's books

Strangely not quite, IIRC.

ProwlAlpha · January 10 2013, 03:16 PM

I enjoy the Kirk books for stupid fun. I loved the Ashes of Eden. However, the Kirk books are pretty much Kirk Rulz!!! and everyone droolz mentality. In one book, Kirk pretty much out does everyone like being more Klingon than Worf and outwitting Data.

In CC, I think it is a fine ending that theme, since Kirk does it all the while being a pre-Academy kid.

MatthiasRussell · January 10 2013, 03:55 PM

I loved the Shatner books until Preserver when they just got weird and I couldn't handle it anymore. Shame too, because the mirror universe novels started interesting.

I read The Return before Ashes and it is still one of my favorite Trek books; I don't think I was lost by starting in the middle either. But Ashes does need to be read before Avenger. I loved the starship Monitor in the book, especially when it flew inside a Romulan Warbird and blew it apart from the inside.

So there is a comic version of Ashes? Who made it?

bbailey861 · January 10 2013, 04:35 PM

ProwlAlpha wrote:

I enjoy the Kirk books for stupid fun. I loved the Ashes of Eden. However, the Kirk books are pretty much Kirk Rulz!!! and everyone droolz mentality. In one book, Kirk pretty much out does everyone like being more Klingon than Worf and outwitting Data.

In CC, I think it is a fine ending that theme, since Kirk does it all the while being a pre-Academy kid.

Yes, indeed, to both your thoughts.

I have no problem with the 'Shatner Rulz' series, nor his CC for exactly the reasoning above...they are fun. I would like to have seen the Academy book continue just to see the completed path.

January 9 2013, 10:04 PM	#20
King Daniel Into Darkness Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Ashes of Eden before Return? All I really remember from CC is that it felt like a nuTrek novel and the Back to the Future-style flying cars (I remember being quite critical of the idea of flying cars in Trek-land. And now they're in Into Darkness!) Oh, and that it was enjoyable. And that it's kind of a reboot itself, being based on Shatner's 2000-and-something pitch for an academy-based TV series. It's not in continuity with the rest of the Shatnerverse. __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

January 9 2013, 10:18 PM	#21
tomswift2002 Captain	Re: Ashes of Eden before Return? I thought that it was in continuity with the rest of William Shatner's books, since even though Kirk and Spock are in it and are working on the same thing, I don't remember them actually meeting, or if they did it was very informal and was brushed off as something that didn't matter, leaving open the first meeting as Shatner described in the first Totality book.

January 9 2013, 10:58 PM	#22
King Daniel Into Darkness Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Ashes of Eden before Return? IIRC, the Tarsus IV flashbacks were incompatible with the ones in Avenger - one version has Kirk protecting young Kevin Riley during the massacre, in the other he's alone. I think Kirk's a few years older in CC's version too. __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

January 10 2013, 01:21 AM	#26
TJ Sinclair Captain Location: There and back again...	Re: Ashes of Eden before Return? As for depictions of the first meeting between Kirk and Spock not jiving up, I'm still a fan of the TOS Starfleet Academy young adult trilogy. __________________ "Social harmony is not a good goal. There's plenty of social harmony in a prison camp. The individual is the smallest and most oppressed minority..." -- Diane Carey, April 2001

January 10 2013, 03:16 PM	#28
ProwlAlpha Fleet Captain Location: Florrum	Re: Ashes of Eden before Return? I enjoy the Kirk books for stupid fun. I loved the Ashes of Eden. However, the Kirk books are pretty much Kirk Rulz!!! and everyone droolz mentality. In one book, Kirk pretty much out does everyone like being more Klingon than Worf and outwitting Data. In CC, I think it is a fine ending that theme, since Kirk does it all the while being a pre-Academy kid. __________________ "As my sweet mother always said, 'son, if one hostage is good, two are better, and three, well, that's just good business!'"

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January 10 2013, 03:55 PM	#29
MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Location: Seattle	Re: Ashes of Eden before Return? I loved the Shatner books until Preserver when they just got weird and I couldn't handle it anymore. Shame too, because the mirror universe novels started interesting. I read The Return before Ashes and it is still one of my favorite Trek books; I don't think I was lost by starting in the middle either. But Ashes does need to be read before Avenger. I loved the starship Monitor in the book, especially when it flew inside a Romulan Warbird and blew it apart from the inside. So there is a comic version of Ashes? Who made it? __________________ "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"