Putting the Shatner "ego issue" from TOS to rest

[ssosmcin]

mos6507 wrote:

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Most of the time actors spend on a set is not spent actually performing. It's sitting around waiting and waiting for the next setup. As such, you are likely to bond with anybody who is physically on the set, as long as you don't have a snobby attitude about who is or isn't worth talking to.

I realize that, but for the most part it seems the big guys went back to their trailers during set ups, unless they were at the "rehearsal table" instituted by Marc Daniels. And since Shatner and Takei didn't have that many scenes together in comparison to scenes with Nimoy or Kelley, he'd still be spending more time between set ups with the main cast. Takei and the others wouldn't even be on the call sheet to pal around with. He didn't have to be a jerk, but neither did he have to know a damned thing about Takei's life. He admitted in his first book that he realized, after 25 years, he never really knew the man.

Honestly, if someone in my life made it that obvious he didn't care to know me, he'd he off my radar except when we had to work together. When asked, all you'd get would be "a nice enough guy, but we weren't close." It all adds up to the same thing for the lower tier cast: get over it.

[TREK_GOD_1]

ssosmcin wrote:

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It all adds up to the same thing for the lower tier cast: get over it.

Agreed. It was borderline insane to take what was in large part a fan invention of a completely united cast/happy family, then turn around and magnify Shatner's past into something negative for not fitting into that post-series invention.

...as mentioned a week ago, the lower tier cast conveniently spare Nimoy, who was bucking for an expanded role, more money, etc., which would not help give more screen time to the others, but reduce it, as the pie was primarily cut up between three actors. No word about that, but Nimoy was looking out for himself during the TOS production as much as Shatner. In fact, his high visibility in early merchandising (Spock was the only character to have his own model kit during the first run) insured he could argue for a bigger part/profit, and since Shatner was the series star and as crucial to its success as Nimoy, that meant the bitter bunch were not going to be elevated. Add guest stars--who serve the next vital component to weekly episodes, and the rest had to work with what was left.

Nimoy would not stand up for them until the TAS production intended to elminate the lower tier characters, but what was happening on the TOS set/production office was clear, yet they said nothing about it in their generations' worth of bitching.

Hypocrites.

[Josan]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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Agreed. It was borderline insane to take what was in large part a fan invention of a completely united cast/happy family, then turn around and magnify Shatner's past into something negative for not fitting into that post-series invention.

...as mentioned a week ago, the lower tier cast conveniently spare Nimoy, who was bucking for an expanded role, more money, etc., which would not help give more screen time to the others, but reduce it, as the pie was primarily cut up between three actors. No word about that, but Nimoy was looking out for himself during the TOS production as much as Shatner. In fact, his high visibility in early merchandising (Spock was the only character to have his own model kit during the first run) insured he could argue for a bigger part/profit, and since Shatner was the series star and as crucial to its success as Nimoy, that meant the bitter bunch were not going to be elevated. Add guest stars--who serve the next vital component to weekly episodes, and the rest had to work with was left.

Nimoy would not stand up for them until the TAS production intended to elminate the lower tier characters, but that was happening on the TOS set/production office was clear, yet they said nothing about it in their generations' worth of bitching.

Hypocrites.

What's the popular phrase? "Quoted for truth"?

[Harvey]

YARN wrote:

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Can you verify this? I mean it sounds interesting and I am not calling you out, but as one anonymous person on the internet to another, this is pretty thin as far as evidence goes.

I only have the audio from the workprint. I may put it online at some point, when I have a moment to edit the roughly 90 minutes (it's missing the last reel, presumably to keep Spock's death a secret) into shorter segments.

This is how I transcribed the scene, which I suppose isn't much help, since I assume it matches the shooting script pretty closely.

SULU
Well, I’m delighted. Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise, however briefly. It’s always an excuse for nostalgia.

KIRK
Well, with Spock as Captain you don’t think I’m going to turn anything up, do you?

CUT-AWAY to STOCK from TMP

KIRK
(looks down at Sulu, looks back up)
By the end of the month, you’ll have your own command, the U.S.S. Excelsior.

MCCOY
Well, congratulations, Commander.

SULU
Thank you, sir. I’ve been looking forward to that for a long time.

KIRK
Well I for one am glad to have you at the helm for three weeks. I don’t think these kids can steer.

[Carcazoid]

Maybe I missed something, but if Sulu was supposed to get Excelsior by "the end of the month" why was Doogie Howser's dad the captain in the next movie?

Seriously, I don't think I've ever come across an explanation for that.

[Dale Sams]

Carcazoid wrote:

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Maybe I missed something, but if Sulu was supposed to get Excelsior by "the end of the month" why was Doogie Howser's dad the captain in the next movie?

Seriously, I don't think I've ever come across an explanation for that.

Sulu didn't have a cool riding crop

[Carcazoid]

Dale Sams wrote:

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Sulu didn't have a cool riding crop

That we know about.

[ssosmcin]

Carcazoid wrote:

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That we know about.

We only knew about the assless chaps.

[Lucky]

Carcazoid wrote:

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Maybe I missed something, but if Sulu was supposed to get Excelsior by "the end of the month" why was Doogie Howser's dad the captain in the next movie?

Seriously, I don't think I've ever come across an explanation for that.

I guess since that didn't end up in TWOK, they didn't feel beholden to follow up on it in the next movie.

[ZapBrannigan]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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Spock was the only character to have his own model kit during the first run

I agree with everything you're saying except this one technicality: the Spock kit came out in 1974.

I built one at the time. I painted the boulders metalic gold and silver, as if the three-headed serpent was guarding a treasure.

[TREK_GOD_1]

ZapBrannigan wrote:

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I agree with everything you're saying except this one technicality: the Spock kit came out in 1974.

The 1974 kit was one of AMT's many reissues. The first Spock vs. 3-headed serpent kit was released in 1968 by Aurora Plastics in the UK, but licensed by AMT for North American release, while AMT was responsible for all other TOS kits (starships, Galileo shuttlecraft, Command Bridge, Exploration Set, etc.).

With Spock being the only screen accurate figure (sort of)--of any kind--made while the series was in production, Nimoy must have felt an astounding amount of power, but i'm sure Doohan, Takei, Nichols and Koenig were looking the other way, or on some extended coffee break when big Nimoy developments happened...

...it was all about that darn devil Shatner--the Grand Manipulator of All Things Star Trek.

I built one at the time. I painted the boulders metalic gold and silver, as if the three-headed serpent was guarding a treasure.

If you have not spotted the old Keith Meyer Space Station kit site (ton of modeller galleries), take a look at the fantastic Spock kit build-up from a fine modeller named S.M. Clark:

http://www.majormattmason.net/aurora...lark%27s20.htm

Back in the day, I could only wish my Spock kit turned out like that!

[ZapBrannigan]

I knew about the reciprocal relationship between Aurora and AMT, but not about the 1968 UK Spock kit. Thanks for the info, T-God.

[Dale Sams]

It's been forever since I read Takei's book, or Shatner's first two...and if the others wrote a book, I didn't read them. BUT...arn't the most damning accusations that Shatner would ask for "their" lines to be cut or given to him? Or that he would say things like, "We don't need to cut away to Sulu here"...and finally if Shatner DID intentionally flub those lines to keep Sulu from being promoted?*

It's things like that, that would seperate him from Nimoy. NOW...did they have to make a living off it? Did Doohan have to make it a blood feud? No. But I'm just pointing out why Nimoy might escape scrutiny.

*Why Shatner would do that, and why Takei would care so much about a fictional promotion, I have no idea.

edit: I would also point out that I don't have a 'side' here. If anything, I find it curious that it took forever for Doohan to bury the hatchet with Bill. If Doohan was rebuffing Bill practically up to Doohan's deathbed...well...all props to Shatner for trying to make amends LONG after I would have given up.

[AtoZ]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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Agreed. It was borderline insane to take what was in large part a fan invention of a completely united cast/happy family, then turn around and magnify Shatner's past into something negative for not fitting into that post-series invention.

...as mentioned a week ago, the lower tier cast conveniently spare Nimoy, who was bucking for an expanded role, more money, etc., which would not help give more screen time to the others, but reduce it, as the pie was primarily cut up between three actors. No word about that, but Nimoy was looking out for himself during the TOS production as much as Shatner. In fact, his high visibility in early merchandising (Spock was the only character to have his own model kit during the first run) insured he could argue for a bigger part/profit, and since Shatner was the series star and as crucial to its success as Nimoy, that meant the bitter bunch were not going to be elevated. Add guest stars--who serve the next vital component to weekly episodes, and the rest had to work with what was left.

Nimoy would not stand up for them until the TAS production intended to elminate the lower tier characters, but what was happening on the TOS set/production office was clear, yet they said nothing about it in their generations' worth of bitching.

Hypocrites.

Excellent post!

[diankra]

ZapBrannigan wrote:

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I knew about the reciprocal relationship between Aurora and AMT, but not about the 1968 UK Spock kit. Thanks for the info, T-God.

It really originated in the UK in 1968? Star Trek wasn't run in the UK till June '69... Oh well, maybe they were planning ahead after looking at the US sales?