My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. - Page 3

BillJ · January 8 2013, 11:10 PM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

...no one cared...

This pretty much sums up the movie for me.

lurok · January 8 2013, 11:15 PM

Pretty much.

But at the risk of repetition, the Frakes/Sirtis commentary makes it a lot more fun.

Dream · January 8 2013, 11:17 PM

I still don't know why they did this story anyway. They should have trashed the script and started over.

Lance · January 9 2013, 02:27 AM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

Lance wrote:

The thing which surprised me is that it somehow felt smaller than First Contact. And more cloistered too, in a funny sort of way. FC actually felt bigger and bolder and more "in the open", which is somewhat ironic because INS featured literally more external scenes away from the Enterprise than FC and costed way more money to shoot. I think FC was just better at suggesting its world, hinting in a way which makes it seem so broad while the size is actually scaled right back. On the other hand, INS kind of puts it all up there on the screen and then doesn't do anything interesting with any of it.

I always thought Insurrection felt "small" because it was about a few hundred people on an insignificant planet in the middle of a region no one cared about. In First Contact, the fate of the entire Federation was at stake--if they failed, everyone would be Borg. The stakes were higher and the scale was larger.

It certainly is ironic that while INS had the bigger budget of the two (I remember reading that somewhere) and therefore, in production terms, more resources to throw at things, it all somehow ended up looking and feeling much smaller and cheaper than First Contact did.

Australis · January 9 2013, 02:43 AM

Hey, thanks for mentioning 'Fade In'. I didn't know it existed, and as a writer, I think it's going to be a great read.

Dream wrote:

I still don't know why they did this story anyway. They should have trashed the script and started over.

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I'm willing to bet studio interference + time constraints = no time left.

Carcazoid · January 9 2013, 02:49 AM

Insurrection is not that bad, for Pete's sake. Some of you act like it's Plan 9 or something.

J. Allen · January 9 2013, 02:52 AM

lurok wrote:

Pretty much.

But at the risk of repetition, the Frakes/Sirtis commentary makes it a lot more fun.

Yeah, but you're repeating me, so it's okay. In fact, I endorse such actions.

sonak · January 9 2013, 05:50 AM

J. Allen wrote:

lurok wrote:

Pretty much.

But at the risk of repetition, the Frakes/Sirtis commentary makes it a lot more fun.

Yeah, but you're repeating me, so it's okay. In fact, I endorse such actions.

I have read over and over again about how great their commentary is, but I have an older version of the movie on DVD.

I wish there was somewhere I could just read the transcript of it or something, I don't really want to buy a new blu-ray disc of one of the worst Trek movies of the entire series just to hear the commentary.

Dale Sams · January 9 2013, 05:54 AM

I'm reading Patrick's notes to Berman and Pillar in "Fade In", and frankly, I'm just facepalming. It's his character, he can do anything he wants. But he's really painting himself into a corner by wanting to move in those directions.

He complains that if they go in Pillers direction, we'll eventually see them singing "Row Row Row Your Boat"?? Better that than basejumping or parachuting from outer space which are some similar directions that Shatner took in being more "Humorous, lighter, swashbuckling."*

* I hope what I'm trying to say there gets across. Stewart seems to want to avoid some of the pitfalls of the TOS crew, and turns around and repeats different mistakes. And does it WORSE.

MacLeod · January 9 2013, 06:05 AM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

lurok wrote:

If you search around this site (and net) you'll probably find some of the answer. The original ideas for INS were far more interesting, but Stewart in particular wanted something lighter (unless I'm mis-remembering).

Berman and Piller actually conceived of it as a lighter film from the getgo, because they didn't believe they could (or should) "out-Borg the Borg" and Berman was particularly fond of the success of The Voyage Home, and believed its lighter tone was largely responsible for its success.

Sure TVH was lighter tone move, but to break it down to a one line description of the movie...

The Key to Saving Earth can be found only in it's past.

The crew of the Enterprise fight to save a Planet.

CorporalClegg · January 9 2013, 06:15 AM

Really, all they had to do was make the Baku human. They could have just as easily been an early human settlement like those in "Up the Long Ladder" (Hell, make them actual Amish.) and suddenly, even with everything else as is, it becomes a substantially stronger film.

AllStarEntprise · January 9 2013, 06:27 AM

CorporalClegg wrote:

Really, all they had to do was make the Baku human. They could have just as easily been an early human settlement like those in "Up the Long Ladder" (Hell, make them actual Amish.) and suddenly, even with everything else as is, it becomes a substantially stronger film.

No. All they had to do was use The Dominion. The film could've benefited tremendously from a better villain. No matter how you frame it no one is threatened or cares about baddies who have an addiction to plastic surgery. Make the film a race for resources between the Dominion and Starfleet, with the 600 Ba'ku on the planet caught in the crossfire between these two colossal powers. It would make the Ba'ku more sympathetic than just being white, pretty hippy people who hate technology, and potentially add depth to why the Ba'ku rejected it. Have the planet and the rings decimated by the literal warzone the planet had become by the end of the film, and have the Ba'ku forced to relocate because their paradise was lost. That's the film INS should've been. It wouldn't have been the poetic, noble and heroic ending of GEN or FC, but it would've stood out among the TNG films and be remembered for having the bawls to do something that different and extreme.

CorporalClegg · January 9 2013, 06:48 AM

The Dominion don't belong in a TNG film. Try again.

AllStarEntprise · January 9 2013, 06:57 AM

I guess the Dominion don't belong on Voyager training simulations for shuttle pilots also. See VOY episode Parturition in season 2. DS9 doesn't have a monoploy on the Dominion ya know. Try again.

Dale Sams · January 9 2013, 07:02 AM

CorporalClegg wrote:

The Dominion don't belong in a TNG film. Try again.

It would be nice to see Picard do the exact opposite of what Sisko does in "The Pale Moonlight"

But I am completly at a loss to think of any race in ST history* that makes the viewer go, "Are you stupid Picard? Do you know how valuable it would be to have (X) as your allies in the war?"

*That isn't already involved. The Ferengi have too much baggage, the Tholians are too alien. The Gorn are too alien.I dunno.

January 8 2013, 11:15 PM	#32
lurok Commodore Location: Lost In The EU Expanse	Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. Pretty much. But at the risk of repetition, the Frakes/Sirtis commentary makes it a lot more fun.

January 8 2013, 11:17 PM	#33
Dream Admiral	Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. I still don't know why they did this story anyway. They should have trashed the script and started over. __________________ TWoP Forums .

January 9 2013, 02:49 AM	#36
Carcazoid Captain Location: Planet Carcazed	Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. Insurrection is not that bad, for Pete's sake. Some of you act like it's Plan 9 or something. __________________ =Carcazoid=

January 9 2013, 05:54 AM	#39
Dale Sams Captain	Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. I'm reading Patrick's notes to Berman and Pillar in "Fade In", and frankly, I'm just facepalming. It's his character, he can do anything he wants. But he's really painting himself into a corner by wanting to move in those directions. He complains that if they go in Pillers direction, we'll eventually see them singing "Row Row Row Your Boat"?? Better that than basejumping or parachuting from outer space which are some similar directions that Shatner took in being more "Humorous, lighter, swashbuckling."* * I hope what I'm trying to say there gets across. Stewart seems to want to avoid some of the pitfalls of the TOS crew, and turns around and repeats different mistakes. And does it WORSE.

January 9 2013, 06:15 AM	#41
CorporalClegg Vice Admiral Location: Nuevo México	Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. Really, all they had to do was make the Baku human. They could have just as easily been an early human settlement like those in "Up the Long Ladder" (Hell, make them actual Amish.) and suddenly, even with everything else as is, it becomes a substantially stronger film.

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January 9 2013, 06:48 AM	#43
CorporalClegg Vice Admiral Location: Nuevo México	Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. The Dominion don't belong in a TNG film. Try again.

January 9 2013, 06:57 AM	#44
AllStarEntprise Commander	Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review. I guess the Dominion don't belong on Voyager training simulations for shuttle pilots also. See VOY episode Parturition in season 2. DS9 doesn't have a monoploy on the Dominion ya know. Try again.