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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 8 2013, 11:45 PM   #16
R. Star
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ I think it would have been hilarious if, during Trials and Tribble-ations, Worf's trip to the past resulted in him immediately appearing as a TOS style Klingon with no one even noticing.
That would have been great.

Unlike with the Klingons, Trek never bothered to address or explain why TNG-era Romulans had head ridges while TOS-era did not.
Being Spock was able to walk around in public on Romulus without a head ridge, and drew no undue notice, one would just assume some have them and some don't.
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Old January 9 2013, 12:03 AM   #17
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

I-Am-Prepared! wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, the (great) DS9 epsiode "Trials and Tribbleations" ruined that - put Worf together in a room with TOS Klingons, and one of the characters is going to say *something*!!! So they had to come up with a canon explanation for it.
No. The glorious thing about that episode is that they didn't come up with an explanation.
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Old January 9 2013, 12:04 AM   #18
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ I think it would have been hilarious if, during Trials and Tribble-ations, Worf's trip to the past resulted in him immediately appearing as a TOS style Klingon with no one even noticing.
This. Emphatically.
Brilliant!

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Unlike with the Klingons, Trek never bothered to address or explain why TNG-era Romulans had head ridges while TOS-era did not.
I honestly think Westmore was so busy congratulating himself over a cheap way to do the eyebrows that he thought no one would notice. How a once great Hollywood family has descended into hackdom. Anyone notice how old McCoy in TOS was so much more convincing than old McCoy in TNG?
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Old January 9 2013, 12:34 AM   #19
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Anyone notice how old McCoy in TOS was so much more convincing than old McCoy in TNG?
Did you see the test footage of McCoy for TNG? I wish they went with that instead.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/bo...sited2_211.jpg
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Old January 9 2013, 12:55 AM   #20
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

^ooh, that is good!
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Old January 9 2013, 01:21 AM   #21
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
I-Am-Prepared! wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, the (great) DS9 epsiode "Trials and Tribbleations" ruined that - put Worf together in a room with TOS Klingons, and one of the characters is going to say *something*!!! So they had to come up with a canon explanation for it.
No. The glorious thing about that episode is that they didn't come up with an explanation.
But it wasn't glorious because it pretty much said that there WAS a difference rather than just simply not addressing it at all.
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Old January 9 2013, 01:43 AM   #22
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

jimbotron wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Anyone notice how old McCoy in TOS was so much more convincing than old McCoy in TNG?
Did you see the test footage of McCoy for TNG? I wish they went with that instead.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/bo...sited2_211.jpg
Never saw that before, thanks. Yeah, that would've been better than the cross between McCoy and Doc Brown from Back to the Future.
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Old January 9 2013, 02:09 AM   #23
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

R. Star wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Anyone notice how old McCoy in TOS was so much more convincing than old McCoy in TNG?
Did you see the test footage of McCoy for TNG? I wish they went with that instead.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/bo...sited2_211.jpg
Never saw that before, thanks. Yeah, that would've been better than the cross between McCoy and Doc Brown from Back to the Future.
I recall reading that the makeup in "Encounter at Farpoint" was based on what was used in "The Deadly Years".

That test footage looks like De with gray hair.
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Old January 9 2013, 02:25 AM   #24
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post

Did you see the test footage of McCoy for TNG? I wish they went with that instead.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/bo...sited2_211.jpg
Never saw that before, thanks. Yeah, that would've been better than the cross between McCoy and Doc Brown from Back to the Future.
I recall reading that the makeup in "Encounter at Farpoint" was based on what was used in "The Deadly Years".

That test footage looks like De with gray hair.
Sort of, yeah. Remember that the McCoy we see in TNG is supposed to be nearly 80 years older than the McCoy we see in the movies! Some gray hair and a few more wrinkles isn't going to cut it.
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Old January 9 2013, 02:44 AM   #25
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

Never saw that before, thanks. Yeah, that would've been better than the cross between McCoy and Doc Brown from Back to the Future.
I recall reading that the makeup in "Encounter at Farpoint" was based on what was used in "The Deadly Years".

That test footage looks like De with gray hair.
Sort of, yeah. Remember that the McCoy we see in TNG is supposed to be nearly 80 years older than the McCoy we see in the movies! Some gray hair and a few more wrinkles isn't going to cut it.
Maybe he took up plastic surgery in his later years of practicing medicine.
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Old January 9 2013, 02:48 AM   #26
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

jimbotron wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Anyone notice how old McCoy in TOS was so much more convincing than old McCoy in TNG?
Did you see the test footage of McCoy for TNG? I wish they went with that instead.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/bo...sited2_211.jpg
That is probably what they'd use today, since what the novelverse would later establish about the human lifespan - 100 is considered prime physical condition - would make 137 years not anywhere near as ancient as McCoy looked on TNG.
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Old January 9 2013, 03:22 AM   #27
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post

Sort of, yeah. Remember that the McCoy we see in TNG is supposed to be nearly 80 years older than the McCoy we see in the movies! Some gray hair and a few more wrinkles isn't going to cut it.
But a face that looks like a jello mold is?


This is convincing:



This is not:



The original makeup worked with Kelley's face. The Westmore makeup is "generic old man #12".
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Old January 9 2013, 03:36 AM   #28
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

The hair from the TOS episode isn't.
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Old January 9 2013, 03:50 AM   #29
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

I'm not going to argue that the makeup used in the episode was great, it wasn't. I don't think it was terrible but it was certainly lacking. (I thought the old-age makeup used in "Too Short a Season" was far worse, however.) Jut that the original old-age look wasn't far enough to depict a 137-year-old man where they essentially took Kelly and added some slightly grayer hair and some wrinkles. The old-age makeup in the TOS episode is very good, and the old-age makeup used on Pulaski in "Unnatural Selection" was decent, but, yeah, the makeup in EaF wasn't great.

Still, that McCoy looks more like a 137-year-old man than the original test makeup.

Look at the pictures, I also sort of think the difference is less about the makeup and more about the lighting used. The corridor scene is way overlit and makes the makeup look poor, the TOS scene seems to have much more natural and subdued levels of lighting, making things look better.
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Old January 9 2013, 06:10 AM   #30
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Re: New Here: Klingon Question

I-Am-Prepared! wrote: View Post
To be honest, I think it's one of those things that most fans would have been happy to accept as a "fact of life" - i.e. we all know Klingons look different in TOS because the budget was smaller, but in our minds we're happy to ignore that. Suspension of disbelief.

Unfortunately, the (great) DS9 epsiode "Trials and Tribbleations" ruined that - put Worf together in a room with TOS Klingons, and one of the characters is going to say *something*!!! So they had to come up with a canon explanation for it.

TBH, I've never watched Enterprise and never will, so I just assume they always had the bumpy foreheads. :P (and just put "Trials" out of my mind)....
No they didn't have to come up with a canon explanation they could have just left it as a mystery.

WORF: We do not discuss it with outsiders

Acknowledge it and move on.
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